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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3413 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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Maybe dumb qustion, but whatt affect does the track have on wheel hop? |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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yes wheel hop, I thought that was a given/known fact ,shock,even shock mount or bush, thats why I sad check all that stuff. I supose even a bald spot on the tire could do it . |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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I have always wondered how much damage occurs during the burn out especially with the worn, uneven, and damaged track surface in the water box. I've always done a modest burn out and no John Force smoke shows.
Some suggest raising tire pressure, others suggest lowering it. I've always been taught to raise pressure till the tires spin then back it down 1-2 PSI.
When I remove the transaxle to repair I will carefully inspect the entire suspension. Looking back in my logbook my rear shocks are 15 years old and that is the 1st thing I'll check, probably gonna go ahead and replace them.
Wish I would have spent the money on a Bus transaxle. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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many times a hard burnout is eazer on the system than a eazy one thats trying to get tracksion... you can tear up a converter in a automatic driving out of the watter and letting it hook....it can rip the sprags right out.and some trans cant take it very well either. just somethen to think on. I never did a burn out in my vw so Im not the one to answer the how to. but ourtopsportsmans& promods got john force burnouts. ( doing those on typickel hard street tires just glazes them over and...spins like hell when launching, or trying to launch.)I almost always ran dirt track tires on my street cars, same as a slick but " block treaded"those are awesome for street usage especialy in the rain!!! if I were to run a bug that needed bite it would have hoosier dirt track tires on it.
pull it down and start inspecting!!!( BOTH SIDES!!!) |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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chrisflstf wrote: |
Maybe dumb qustion, but whatt affect does the track have on wheel hop? |
Dragstrips apply traction compound to the surface, and other cars with soft rubber actually lay down rubber that alters traction. The number of vehicles, power of the vehicles, and how much the track spends on compound depends how much traction. A street car test-n-tune weekday night may have little compound, while you will step out of an untied shoe Sunday night after a top fuel event.
vwracerdave wrote: |
Some suggest raising tire pressure, others suggest lowering it. I've always been taught to raise pressure till the tires spin then back it down 1-2 PSI.
When I remove the transaxle to repair I will carefully inspect the entire suspension. Looking back in my logbook my rear shocks are 15 years old and that is the 1st thing I'll check, probably gonna go ahead and replace them.
Wish I would have spent the money on a Bus transaxle. |
I was once told an inflated tire is like a basket ball in regards to wheel hop. The higher the pressure the easier it will bounce/hop.
Koni Reds are on sale right now from Summit. |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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I suggested you go up a bit in pressure to get a bit less traction on the initial launch. I had a buddy that kept breaking all kinds of crap. He went up in tire pressure, lost a bit of initial grab, and stopped breaking so many things.
I think you can get hop with too low,.or to high of pressures.. you want sidewall flex.. but if it is hopping for whatever reason, that's the #1 reason to be breaking stuff. Too much grab on the hit would probably be second.
Or run less clutch. |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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mcmscott wrote: |
My buddie was running 11.60s in a full weight 69 sedan, mid 1.60s 60 ft time.
I was racing the march meets in my 67, very braced car, solid mounted, solid mid mount, braced truss, brace from horns to the body and a couple other things. That car shot out of the hole without a shudder. Came back to the pits and a buddie says "you got some serious wheel hop" I tell him no way possible, he had a camera on a tripod behind all us racing. He showed me the vid in slow motion and you could see the stinger coming away from the body and returning about 3 in! You could also see the tires wrinkle, unload and move foward and back at the same rythem as the engine was moving. All this without feeling not even a shudder, trust me, you have wheel hop. Yes I have seen more broken trans parts than most anyone on this site.
I've slowed down trying to answer questions I know as facts due to all the people here that obviously know way more than myself about transaxles and would rather try to tell me I'm wrong. |
Its rare to see great posts with real knowledge and experience like this. 70% of samba posts are people saying "I think this, maybe that, you might try". Its like so many people just have to comment something on everything, meanwhile, alot of people that have some great experience hold back, and only say something when they know for sure, cause it seems alot are interverts are the less talk/more action type.
This post is great, learned something new. Wheel hop is so common, once we think we have it fixed, we think its really gone. Never guessed it might still be there and also causing damage.
Also, you have a good friend that came over and shared the video of your car running. _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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Anybody running the M&H 26X6 slicks or their 215/65 DOT drag tires on a Ghia?
. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
Anybody running the M&H 26X6 slicks or their 215/65 DOT drag tires on a Ghia?
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I.m using the 215's on my 67 and my ghia _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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I have an IRS Ghia. How much difference is there in total width between a swing & IRS?
I'm currently running Pheonix 26X6 slicks on 914 2.0 liter Fuchs. I might have 1/8" clearance. The M&H are listed as a little larger then the old Pheonix slicks that are NLA. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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Torsion housing in the ghia is narrowed and raised. Wont fit if it was stock. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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thanks Scott _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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b-man Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 498 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
I have an IRS Ghia. How much difference is there in total width between a swing & IRS?
I'm currently running Pheonix 26X6 slicks on 914 2.0 liter Fuchs. I might have 1/8" clearance. The M&H are listed as a little larger then the old Pheonix slicks that are NLA. |
I recently took some measurements on an early short axle chassis (1958 bug) and an IRS chassis (1967 bug with IRS conversion).
The difference in width between them was right at 2.25”. This assumes the same brakes on each chassis.
Depending on what year or model brake drums or whatever rear disc brakes you’re using the track width can change. _________________ 1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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There are a few in the classifieds that make narrowed IRS arms. Lummus has some nice ones. I’d stay IRS. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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I finally got around to fixing the Ghia. The right side shock was weak so I replaced both. Don't know if that caused the problem, but it sure might have. We'll see how things go in a few weeks when I race the Ghia in Street Comp. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
I finally got around to fixing the Ghia. The right side shock was weak so I replaced both. Don't know if that caused the problem, but it sure might have. We'll see how things go in a few weeks when I race the Ghia in Street Comp. |
Stuff like that are things you don’t think about, till you think about them. The Super is still a modern registration, and needs a yearly safety inspection. I made 133 passes at the track one year when I was racing the most. While the car left straight with both rear wheels, the passenger side always had less weight. When I went for the safety inspection, the right rear tire was worn considerably more than the left. I’m sure that put some extra stress on something. I replaced the tires, and the consistency of the 60ft. times got closer. Hopefully the shocks get you back in the groove. |
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