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Broken IRS end gears.
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chrisflstf
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

Maybe dumb qustion, but whatt affect does the track have on wheel hop?
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

yes wheel hop, I thought that was a given/known fact ,shock,even shock mount or bush, thats why I sad check all that stuff. I supose even a bald spot on the tire could do it Shocked .
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

I have always wondered how much damage occurs during the burn out especially with the worn, uneven, and damaged track surface in the water box. I've always done a modest burn out and no John Force smoke shows.

Some suggest raising tire pressure, others suggest lowering it. I've always been taught to raise pressure till the tires spin then back it down 1-2 PSI.

When I remove the transaxle to repair I will carefully inspect the entire suspension. Looking back in my logbook my rear shocks are 15 years old and that is the 1st thing I'll check, probably gonna go ahead and replace them.

Wish I would have spent the money on a Bus transaxle.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

many times a hard burnout is eazer on the system than a eazy one thats trying to get tracksion... you can tear up a converter in a automatic driving out of the watter and letting it hook....it can rip the sprags right out.and some trans cant take it very well either. just somethen to think on. I never did a burn out in my vw so Im not the one to answer the how to. but ourtopsportsmans& promods got john force burnouts. ( doing those on typickel hard street tires just glazes them over and...spins like hell when launching, or trying to launch.)I almost always ran dirt track tires on my street cars, same as a slick but " block treaded"those are awesome for street usage especialy in the rain!!! if I were to run a bug that needed bite it would have hoosier dirt track tires on it.

pull it down and start inspecting!!!( BOTH SIDES!!!)
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
Maybe dumb qustion, but whatt affect does the track have on wheel hop?


Dragstrips apply traction compound to the surface, and other cars with soft rubber actually lay down rubber that alters traction. The number of vehicles, power of the vehicles, and how much the track spends on compound depends how much traction. A street car test-n-tune weekday night may have little compound, while you will step out of an untied shoe Sunday night after a top fuel event.

vwracerdave wrote:
Some suggest raising tire pressure, others suggest lowering it. I've always been taught to raise pressure till the tires spin then back it down 1-2 PSI.

When I remove the transaxle to repair I will carefully inspect the entire suspension. Looking back in my logbook my rear shocks are 15 years old and that is the 1st thing I'll check, probably gonna go ahead and replace them.

Wish I would have spent the money on a Bus transaxle.


I was once told an inflated tire is like a basket ball in regards to wheel hop. The higher the pressure the easier it will bounce/hop.

Koni Reds are on sale right now from Summit.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

I suggested you go up a bit in pressure to get a bit less traction on the initial launch. I had a buddy that kept breaking all kinds of crap. He went up in tire pressure, lost a bit of initial grab, and stopped breaking so many things.

I think you can get hop with too low,.or to high of pressures.. you want sidewall flex.. but if it is hopping for whatever reason, that's the #1 reason to be breaking stuff. Too much grab on the hit would probably be second.

Or run less clutch.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

mcmscott wrote:
My buddie was running 11.60s in a full weight 69 sedan, mid 1.60s 60 ft time.
I was racing the march meets in my 67, very braced car, solid mounted, solid mid mount, braced truss, brace from horns to the body and a couple other things. That car shot out of the hole without a shudder. Came back to the pits and a buddie says "you got some serious wheel hop" I tell him no way possible, he had a camera on a tripod behind all us racing. He showed me the vid in slow motion and you could see the stinger coming away from the body and returning about 3 in! You could also see the tires wrinkle, unload and move foward and back at the same rythem as the engine was moving. All this without feeling not even a shudder, trust me, you have wheel hop. Yes I have seen more broken trans parts than most anyone on this site.
I've slowed down trying to answer questions I know as facts due to all the people here that obviously know way more than myself about transaxles and would rather try to tell me I'm wrong.


Its rare to see great posts with real knowledge and experience like this. 70% of samba posts are people saying "I think this, maybe that, you might try". Its like so many people just have to comment something on everything, meanwhile, alot of people that have some great experience hold back, and only say something when they know for sure, cause it seems alot are interverts are the less talk/more action type.
This post is great, learned something new. Wheel hop is so common, once we think we have it fixed, we think its really gone. Never guessed it might still be there and also causing damage.

Also, you have a good friend that came over and shared the video of your car running.
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

Anybody running the M&H 26X6 slicks or their 215/65 DOT drag tires on a Ghia?

.
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mcmscott
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
Anybody running the M&H 26X6 slicks or their 215/65 DOT drag tires on a Ghia?

.


I.m using the 215's on my 67 and my ghia
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

I have an IRS Ghia. How much difference is there in total width between a swing & IRS?

I'm currently running Pheonix 26X6 slicks on 914 2.0 liter Fuchs. I might have 1/8" clearance. The M&H are listed as a little larger then the old Pheonix slicks that are NLA.
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mcmscott
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

Torsion housing in the ghia is narrowed and raised. Wont fit if it was stock.
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

thanks Scott
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b-man
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
I have an IRS Ghia. How much difference is there in total width between a swing & IRS?

I'm currently running Pheonix 26X6 slicks on 914 2.0 liter Fuchs. I might have 1/8" clearance. The M&H are listed as a little larger then the old Pheonix slicks that are NLA.

I recently took some measurements on an early short axle chassis (1958 bug) and an IRS chassis (1967 bug with IRS conversion).

The difference in width between them was right at 2.25”. This assumes the same brakes on each chassis.

Depending on what year or model brake drums or whatever rear disc brakes you’re using the track width can change.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

There are a few in the classifieds that make narrowed IRS arms. Lummus has some nice ones. I’d stay IRS.
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

I finally got around to fixing the Ghia. The right side shock was weak so I replaced both. Don't know if that caused the problem, but it sure might have. We'll see how things go in a few weeks when I race the Ghia in Street Comp.
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2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
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Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken IRS end gears. Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
I finally got around to fixing the Ghia. The right side shock was weak so I replaced both. Don't know if that caused the problem, but it sure might have. We'll see how things go in a few weeks when I race the Ghia in Street Comp.


Stuff like that are things you don’t think about, till you think about them. The Super is still a modern registration, and needs a yearly safety inspection. I made 133 passes at the track one year when I was racing the most. While the car left straight with both rear wheels, the passenger side always had less weight. When I went for the safety inspection, the right rear tire was worn considerably more than the left. I’m sure that put some extra stress on something. I replaced the tires, and the consistency of the 60ft. times got closer. Hopefully the shocks get you back in the groove.
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