Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Case material change
Forum Index -> Beetle - Split-Window/1938-53 VWs Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ted2
Samba Member


Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 245

Ted2 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject: Case material change Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

When did VW change from Aluminum to Magnesium cases?

Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rod_vw
Samba Member


Joined: December 20, 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Shropshire, UK
rod_vw is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

Progressive Refinements https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/progr...part_1.pdf

Page M9 ?
_________________
Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/

1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member


Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
ZENVWDRIVER is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

rod_vw wrote:
Progressive Refinements https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/progr...part_1.pdf

Page M9 ?


So, what is the answer - when? I cannot figure how to get to M9 in PR - Z
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RUNKLE
Samba Member


Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 4050

RUNKLE is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

Here ya go. Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Type 1
1950 Standard - 1959 Ragtop - 1961 Ragtop two fold - 1964 Sunroof

Type 3
1968 Squareback
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member


Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
ZENVWDRIVER is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

… the NO-BS reply from JT Garwood > page 171 > 1951, at engine number1-0379470 and at ch. number 1-0313829, the engine crankcase was now made of a new aluminum magnesium alloy formula, known as electron - the crankcases were darker, beginning with 1951 models - they were not as shiny and bright as before - everything else, was left untouched for 1951...

… note on page 34 - 1945 engine - the magnesium aluminum alloy crankcase held the crankcase rigid in it's 4 insert-type main bearings - there were no separate cam bearings - the case was hardened, at this point - early engines, through 1950 were lighter in color then those used in 1951 and up - z
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EverettB Premium Member
Administrator


Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69734
Location: Phoenix Metro
EverettB is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
… the NO-BS reply from JT Garwood > page 171 > 1951, at engine number1-0379470 and at ch. number 1-0313829, the engine crankcase was now made of a new aluminum magnesium alloy formula, known as electron - the crankcases were darker, beginning with 1951 models - they were not as shiny and bright as before - everything else, was left untouched for 1951...


Those numbers are the last VIN/Engine #s for 1951 so this sounds incorrect since it would be the beginning of the 1952 models.

The beginning of 1951 would basically be the numbers from Progressive Refinements above.

Another thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150583
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ted2
Samba Member


Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 245

Ted2 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

Thanks,

So, based on this information would the "new" cases have been Dow 7 coated?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member


Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
ZENVWDRIVER is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
… the NO-BS reply from JT Garwood > page 171 > 1951, at engine number1-0379470 and at ch. number 1-0313829, the engine crankcase was now made of a new aluminum magnesium alloy formula, known as electron - the crankcases were darker, beginning with 1951 models - they were not as shiny and bright as before - everything else, was left untouched for 1951...


Those numbers are the last VIN/Engine #s for 1951 so this sounds incorrect since it would be the beginning of the 1952 models.

The beginning of 1951 would basically be the numbers from Progressive Refinements above.

Another thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150583


… one thing for sure is Garwood may be , incorrect at times, but is easy reading - That Progressive Refinements PDF really sucks - guess that's the best thesamba can offer - i'm one of those 'old schoolers' who relates to a (cost prohibitive) hard reading copy - can't say, thesamba didn't try though - z
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member


Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
ZENVWDRIVER is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

Ted2 wrote:
Thanks,

So, based on this information would the "new" cases have been Dow 7 coated?


Googled, Dow7 - Much like DOW 19, the DOW 7 is also a chromate chemical conversion coating. Chemical conversion coatings, when applied to magnesium, have chemical reaction which results in a thin film being formed on the magnesium surface. DOW 7 also contains the toxic chemical hexavalent chromium (aka:Cr 6+) - give your Dow7 a try, then report-in your findings - z
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EverettB Premium Member
Administrator


Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69734
Location: Phoenix Metro
EverettB is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
EverettB wrote:
ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
… the NO-BS reply from JT Garwood > page 171 > 1951, at engine number1-0379470 and at ch. number 1-0313829, the engine crankcase was now made of a new aluminum magnesium alloy formula, known as electron - the crankcases were darker, beginning with 1951 models - they were not as shiny and bright as before - everything else, was left untouched for 1951...


Those numbers are the last VIN/Engine #s for 1951 so this sounds incorrect since it would be the beginning of the 1952 models.

The beginning of 1951 would basically be the numbers from Progressive Refinements above.

Another thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150583


… one thing for sure is Garwood may be , incorrect at times, but is easy reading - That Progressive Refinements PDF really sucks - guess that's the best thesamba can offer - i'm one of those 'old schoolers' who relates to a (cost prohibitive) hard reading copy - can't say, thesamba didn't try though - z


It's a PDF so you can print it out if you prefer a hard copy.

In this case I would argue a PDF vs. a hard copy is superior since you can search it with the Find command.
Search on "crankcase" and you can jump right to that entry.

I post this info mainly for others to be aware of as it can be useful.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
splitjunkie
Samba Member


Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4083

splitjunkie is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
EverettB wrote:
ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
… the NO-BS reply from JT Garwood > page 171 > 1951, at engine number1-0379470 and at ch. number 1-0313829, the engine crankcase was now made of a new aluminum magnesium alloy formula, known as electron - the crankcases were darker, beginning with 1951 models - they were not as shiny and bright as before - everything else, was left untouched for 1951...


Those numbers are the last VIN/Engine #s for 1951 so this sounds incorrect since it would be the beginning of the 1952 models.

The beginning of 1951 would basically be the numbers from Progressive Refinements above.

Another thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150583


… one thing for sure is Garwood may be , incorrect at times, but is easy reading - That Progressive Refinements PDF really sucks - guess that's the best thesamba can offer - i'm one of those 'old schoolers' who relates to a (cost prohibitive) hard reading copy - can't say, thesamba didn't try though - z


It's a PDF so you can print it out if you prefer a hard copy.

In this case I would argue a PDF vs. a hard copy is superior since you can search it with the Find command.
Search on "crankcase" and you can jump right to that entry.

I post this info mainly for others to be aware of as it can be useful.


Everett. Thanks for all the hard work that you go through keeping this great site and all of its resources available to all. It's a pitty that some don't appreciate it.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sinclair
Samba Member


Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 393
Location: New Forest UK
sinclair is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 1:55 am    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

Ted2 I bet you wish you hadn't asked Laughing

It's good to have more than one point of reference. For me PR is great web based info for quick access anywhere and Garwood is a better read.
Not everyone has access to Garwood so credit to Zen for doing the digging when there's a query, as there's no search function in the book. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member


Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
ZENVWDRIVER is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Case material change Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
… the NO-BS reply from JT Garwood > page 171 > 1951, at engine number1-0379470 and at ch. number 1-0313829, the engine crankcase was now made of a new aluminum magnesium alloy formula, known as electron - the crankcases were darker, beginning with 1951 models - they were not as shiny and bright as before - everything else, was left untouched for 1951...


Those numbers are the last VIN/Engine #s for 1951 so this sounds incorrect since it would be the beginning of the 1952 models.

The beginning of 1951 would basically be the numbers from Progressive Refinements above.

Another thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150583



… rechecking things to hand write a correction entry, I was looking in 2 places, at once (old age, setting in) - Garwood suggests the new Electron formula introduced at engine number 1-0266000 and chassis number 1-0220472 these numbers were at the very beginning of 1951 - my apologies to JTG and everyone else... (the aging) z
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Split-Window/1938-53 VWs All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.