| Author |
Message |
VicVan
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1842
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
 |
|
1990 Westy
I'm going to fix the luggage rack. Not sure how, because I never attempted fiberglass repair. One thing I am sure of, is that I'm doing it myself.
Here's what happens when you kinda forget you took the van and not the car:
Same seen from behind:
The missing piece:
You think this is bad? You should see the other guy:
What do you think? Doable? Any special tips or tricks? Can I just grind down the cracks and gently fill them one by one, or do I have to redo the whole area? Any help is appreciated.
_________________
'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16868
Location: sticksville, ct.
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
too long of a process to type, but plenty of videos out there. you'll have to do a bunch of work but it's doable for sure.
just watch your temps, once you activate the resin shit happens FAST and your work time is very limited on a hot day unless you mix in a retarder (depending on what system you use)
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32609
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3029
Location: MD
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
I don't have any fiberglass advice, but let me get on my garage door opener soapbox. This kind of accident is exactly why jackshaft garage openers are a much better solution. To anyone thinking about replacing your garage door opener, check the link out. And they don't make any annoying rattling noise either.
https://www.amazon.com/LiftMaster-8500-Elite-Jackshaft-Operator/dp/B00BS28SP8
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VicVan
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1842
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
| djkeev wrote: |
Just start doing, you'll figure it out.
|
I like that!
Thanks, I'll just dive into it then. One last thing: I have polyester resin, but no epoxy. I like polyester because from what I've read it's not impossible to sand down, and also because it's the stuff I already have. I read everywhere DON'T USE POLY, EPOXY IS STRONGER. Sure it's stronger, but isn't poyester enough here?
_________________
'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
The thing about fiberglass is you could repair this damage and next week hit it again and do the same repair x 1000 times! It is a very repairable material.
Some tips: when sanding definitely wear a mask, preferably good mask to seal your eyes.
When washing up use cold water first to rinse the dust off the body and not warm/hot water which will open the pores and give the fiberglass a place to get into! It can be an irritating dust!
West Marine System is a easy way to go because they have pumps and nozzles that meter out the exact mix ratio for the resin and hardener.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jordauto
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2011
Posts: 218
Location: Sorrento,BC
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
| The Poptop and luggage rack are made of SMC (sheet moulding compound). It’s a type of fibreglass but uses a different resin. Any auto body supply shop will have the correct resin and materials to do the repair. I did a very similar repair to a donor lugggage rack I’m using for a tin top to westy swap. Regular fibreglass resin may work but may have bonding issues. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3274
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
Just as a data point, when I joined my pop top to my luggage rack, I used polyester resin and now, over ten years later, still have no problems to note, so I think polyester resin will suffice and bond well with the factory Westfalia material.
More important, in my view, is buying quality products, both glass fibre and resin/hardener. The Bondo brand of resin, for example, is best avoided since age of the product is hard to determine and quality of the product - - well, I'll stop there.
Here in Vancouver, there is a really great fibreglass products seller oriented to those requiring smaller quantities and they literally have everything: https://fibertek.ca/product-category/products/fiberglass-materials/
They sell a lot to the special-effects profession in the local movie production scene here as well as boat applications. I bought my materials from them and the service and advice was great.
The repairs you will have to do to your luggage rack are fairly straightforward. I learnt a few tricks as I did the job on my pop-top, tricks that a professional would be ashamed to use, but worked for me.
If you can't patch the missing pices back into place, or otherwise have large holes that need to be shaped, you can use Mylar tape on the exterior to plug the hole and acquire the shape of the surrounding area, paint gel coat inside the tape (two or three coats) and then remove the Mylar tape and apply glass fibre on the inside of the luggage rack such that the Mylar tape is your "mold". This area would then be glassed in from the underside of the luggage rack once the gel-coat is hard.
Another trick I used is to buy some modeling clay from Fibre-Tech and use it to make a temporary "mold" in your repair area as a backstop for your glass fibre, doing the glass fibre application first and the gel coat last. In this approach, you need to purchase "waxed" gel coat so that the gel coat does not remain sticky forever. Gel coat that is "unwaxed" only hardens fully on the side applied to the glass fibre. On the side exposed to air, it remains gummy. This is by design because it enables further coats of gel coat to chemically bond to each other.
The normal process for making a fibreglass part is to have a mold, spray several coats of gel coat on, and after that cures, begin laying up the glass fibre and resin. For a repair, you can work from the inside of the object (the glass fibre sie) or from the outside, (the gel coat side).
One other hint: Do get a quality steel roller to iron out air bubbles in your glass fibre lay-up work and do not use any more resin than is needed to just wet the glass fibre.
Below: After glass fibre lay-up:
Below: Gel coat roller-applied to glass fibre:
Below: Home Depot roller gives the texture you want for gel coat
Below: Job done, 2012:
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VicVan
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1842
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
Thanks all for the tips. That's exactly the kind of knowledge I was looking for.
In the meantime I've removed the rack from the van. Two of the large screws were hard to remove, so I damaged them a bit. Might replace them with stainless, or try to paint them. Any idea what the color might be (my van is a 1990 Orly Blue LP5Z)? I'll need the color for repainting the repair anyway...
Seeing all this mess reminded me that I had ordered, a while ago, the GW "Luggage Rack Drain Hole Screen Kit". Won't hurt. I'll just have to find another way to make compost.
_________________
'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10372
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
I can't recall what type of resin etc I used but likely was for body work repair.
Before sanding. This was on a corner of the luggage rack but shows how forgiving the process can be. Once the paints on, no one will know.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
markswagen
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2018
Posts: 1030
Location: san diego
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
l'm no expert, but you have an undamaged shackle mount, if you drill out the metal mount, you can take a mold from it, big enough to cover all the damage on the other side.
from there, i'd cut out back to good fiberglass, attach the mold, and build it back up from the inside. once you have it close enough, you can finish the outside.
l have damage to repair on mine, from overloading, and using ratchet straps to hold the overweight down 
_________________
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3096
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
| VicVan wrote: |
Seeing all this mess reminded me that I had ordered, a while ago, the GW "Luggage Rack Drain Hole Screen Kit". Won't hurt. I'll just have to find another way to make compost. |
even though you have the GW solution....consider this one. superior is several ways.
6 years going strong on the original $0.43/ea spent
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=602968&highlight=
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
just make sure YOU WEAR A DUST MASK WHEN GRINDING/SANDING the fiberglass.
this is a good application for a (k)N-95.
googles would be advised too, shyt can be quite an irritant.
I'd recommend you practice laying out some resin/cloth on some scrap piece of something first to get a feeling for the working time... and such.
_________________
| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22653
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
Look up the “ West system” used by boaters everywhere on FG repairs
I was in a boat trailer convoy when a rig stopped short, and two of members hit. The truck ripped the outboard off the back of the boat
A local shop fixed the transom in glass in 4 hours
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kourt
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1944
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
I've repaired rowing shells and canoes for about 20 years using the West System G/Flex Epoxy kits.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002IZFPQE
These kits don't come with any filler or glass material. You can always buy those fillers at a hardware store.
I would work from the inside out on this, learning on the side not exposed to the world (and its judgement). Trim away loose fibers and clean up the edges. Mask off the repair area as if you were painting it, outside and inside.
A common cheat is to use clear packing tape on the outside surface to hold your pieces in place, then infill with epoxy on the inside. Since the tape is both clear and flat, you can see how you infill the repair through the tape on the outside, and the flatness tends to help reduce the sanding you have to do in the final stages of the repair. Once the epoxy is cured (give it days) remove the tape and you have a smooth, consistent surface to work with on the outside.
There will be more experienced folks on here who will no doubt not recommend this method--and their advice is probably good--but I'm just passing on what a lay person does, who has to repair thin shell fiberglas shells in a hurry, with minimal extra work. The Vanagon luggage rack is similar to a rowing shell in its construction, so I am confident my methods would produce good results.
If you have time and don't mind lots of work, dive in to Youtube and learn the skill. Otherwise, use the cheats! 
"Sanding and paint make me the boatbuilder I ain't" is the mantra (replace "sanding" with "grinding" if you are welder).
kourt |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
valvecovergasket
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
| VicVan wrote: |
In the meantime I've removed the rack from the van. Two of the large screws were hard to remove, so I damaged them a bit. Might replace them with stainless, or try to paint them. |
i think the tips on glass and materials have already been covered, so i wont keep beating on that much, other than to say any sort of delicate bodywork related things are definitely not my forte and ive had good luck with various fiberglass projects. usually helps to go in layers of less is more - and add as needed. i find that easier than doing lots of sanding.
but, for your pop tops i was really impressed with the GW luggage rack refresh brackets and hardware when i had the top of our van apart last winter. the brackets are nice and having the whole mess serviceable from up top is great.
_________________
MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Let's fix the fiberglass on the luggage rack |
|
|
| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
I don't have any fiberglass advice, but let me get on my garage door opener soapbox. This kind of accident is exactly why jackshaft garage openers are a much better solution. To anyone thinking about replacing your garage door opener, check the link out. And they don't make any annoying rattling noise either.
https://www.amazon.com/LiftMaster-8500-Elite-Jackshaft-Operator/dp/B00BS28SP8 |
I bought one of this type of opener (haven't installed yet) but one of the great advantages is it will leave open the space above the door if you have a tall ceiling.
We have our two canoes hanging from the vaulted ceiling and I can lift the pop-top of the Westy; with a ordinary garage door lift this wouldn't be possible.
(Mistake we made was to order a 8' foot door instead of a 10' when we built the garage. Have to take the roof racks off to get the Westy inside.  )
However, the picture shows the entrance to a commercial carpark.
VicVan - is that the one you hit? Shows how strong the Westy luggage rack is!
On the repair work, epoxy is stronger and can be successfully sanded if the correct amount of hardener is used, but poly will work fine. Work in small patches so if the harder goes off too soon you won't waste much product.
Another tip (in case it hasn't already been said) is to make sure the rack is clean and free of any wax. Get some acetone if you don't have any.
Give the surface a good scratch with sandpaper for better adhesion. You're gonna have to paint anyway so don't worry about sanding too far around the damage.
As for the color, you can get a can of spray paint in the correct color from someone like Touchupdirect.
https://touchupdirect.com/touch-up-paint/volkswagen/vanagon/
Be sure and use a quality clear coat on top of the touchup for protection.
Good luck!
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
