brake bleeding

[ELFRIED]

It's certainly not the first time I've done this but now I got something strange going on.
I changed my brake cilinder for a dual one.New reservoir directly on the brake cilinder( no brake lines).
Bleeding of 3 wheels went ok - about 5 pumps and no air coming out- but the drivers front wheel keeps coming air.My wife 's tired of pushing the pedal after a few days of trying ...
I stopped it and took the a look at the wheel cilinder but there's no leak .
No leaks at the brake cilinder either and I think there can't be air in the brake cilionder while the front passenger side was after 5 pumps airless and it's the same circuit inside the brake cilinder.
All the parts are new , ...

All ideas are wellcome.

[jeffrey8164]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002KM5LK?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Get one of these. Your wife will appreciate it.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)

[Car32]

On my '71 Ghia, I installed all-new, 4-wheel disc brakes and a disc/disc master cylinder.

I couldn't get the system to bleed: the left rear would pull no brake fluid using a vacuum bleeder ( https://tinyurl.com/ameknx5d ).

So, I took some advice from this forum and used the Motive pressure bleeder mentioned above in this thread but not in the "traditional" sense.

I put about 1" of brake fluid in the bottom of the bleeder and pumped pressure into the left-rear bleeder valve, pushing air through the line, into the master cylinder and out through the reservoir.

It worked and I have good brakes. Best of luck to you.
_________________
First Car = 1970 Westfallen Typ II
Second Car = 1966 Baja
Nth Car = 2006 Cayman S

1971 Karmann Ghia Coupe

[rbsurfguy]

Awesome, definitely n my to buy list!

Question, is everyone just using the standard DOT 3 brake fluid or has anyone found using another grade works better...asking for a friend!
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[ELFRIED]

I'm using dot 4 now

[rbsurfguy]

Thanks, was trying to consider if I should upgrade to 4.
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[jeffrey8164]

Differences between DOT 3 and DOT 4 have to do with boiling points and water absorption. DOT 3 was it when these cars were built so that’s what most people use. One can easily go to DOT 4 but I can’t believe the brakes will work any better. Maybe there would be less fade with DOT 4 on a spirited ride on some twisty roads when you’re braking heavily and often.
There are also DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 brake fluids but those are glycol and silicone based which are typically used in large heavy vehicles. Not sure if any of the DOT 5s affect the seals in the master cylinder, calipers etc.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)

[rbsurfguy]

Thanks Jeffrey, yeah I wasn't concerned about the DOT 5's based on what you listed. Just wondering if the DOT 4 was considered a newer upgrade, but sure the 3 is just fine. Didn't mean to jack the thread.
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[Redlabel6]

I used Dot 5 when I did my '73. I replaced all of the steel lines, hoses, calipers, wheel cylinders and master cylinder. The toughest part was cleaning out the brake fluid reservoir. I have had no issues, the pedal has always been nice and firm.
I plan on using it in the '57 Oval Beetle I'm working on now.

D
_________________
1957 Oval Window Beetle
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=666792&highlight=73+coupe

[kingkarmann]

[LVGhia72]

The brake line may not be seated fully into the wheel cylinder. For what ever reason. This would result in the air being sucked into the system. I had this problem on my Fat Chick.

As far as the Dot 5 brake fluid goes, the entire system needs to be flushed with denatured alcohol. As Dot 5 is not compatible with other brake fluids. Did this to a lot of handling equipment when I was in the military.

[c21darrel]

If there are top and bottom bleed screws, use the top, will never get it using the bottom.
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GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
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[mxl556]

I have been using Motive Bleeder for over a decade on a number of cars, including cars with ABS and traction control units. Never a problem and easy to use. I normally try to flush the brake fluid once a year. ATE SL or 200 (used to be blue) DOT4 fluid in a 1 liter metal container works well and a liter is plenty to flush the system in a Ghia. Cable operated non hydraulic clutch makes life easier too.

I'd recommend to use the bleeder dry and not put brake fluid in it. Just topping off the car's brake fluid container works. I stopped filing up the bleeder with brake fluid and like it better that way, it is much cleaner and much less risk to spill the brake fluid on the paint. It is worth it even if I need to watch the fluid level more carefully and refill the car's brake reservoir more often. I fill up the car's brake fluid reservoir to the top, then attach the bleeder, pump it up to 5-7psi for non ABS cars and around 10 for ABS cars, open the valve at the caliper (start from the furthest away). Works every time.

Max

[rbsurfguy]

[Ian Godfrey]

Motive make a large range of caps to suit almost every reservoir, have a look at there website to see if it is the correct one. Yes, you screw the motive one onto your reservoir.
I do it the same way max does, just putting fluid in the reservoir. For me, not having to clean up the bleeder out ways having to stop and refill the reservoir a couple of times.
I have the cap that works with a stock tank in the trunk and the seal was a good fit.
good luck, it is an annoying process starting with a dry system.
I like to jack up the back of the car to bleed that end, then the same when I bleed the front. sometimes tapping the caliper with a mallet helps the bubbles to move, and sometimes leaving it sit over night and going again the next day seems to help too.

[rbsurfguy]

Great advice Ian, thank you for that. I'll just go for it, if it screws up, no worries will do it over till I get it correct!
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[kingkarmann]

[BulliBill]

I bought a German "Schwaben" version of the "Motive" unit but have yet to try it out. I really want to avoid a mess or ANY spillage. My question is if you use it as directed in the instructions or in Youtube product demonstration videos do these types of one-man pressure bleeders often leak? I can understand a few drips ae you detact the pressure cap on your brake reservoir when you are finished and breaking down, but if it is really messy consistently I'd like to know more.

I will first remove with a baster any old brake fluid that I can get out of the reservoir. Then I'll add brand new brake fluid to the reservoir and make sure that I do not overfill the brake reservoir tank, filling it only to the full mark. Then screw on the pressure cap snuggly, then dump the remainder of the bottle of new brake fluid into the pressure tank, then pumping up pressure to say about 7 PSI. Then after bleeding all four corners and we're pretty much done, I assume that you first release any pressure in the bleeder pressure tank, then get rags to surround the brake reservoir cap, then unscrew the bleeder's pressure cap and catch any drips. Once removed then you would add or remove brake fluid to get a full reading on the brake reservoir tank and cap it with your stock reservoir cap.

So does that sound correct, and will doing it this way avoid most messiness? Thanks for relaying your pressure bleeder experience and tips!

Bill
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I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!

[Ian Godfrey]

What you outline will work well.
the method with no fluid in the pump unit means that the cap on the car reservoir has no fluid around it, so the only spill risk is the filling of the car's reservoir.
let us know how you go

[bruehoyt]

Check the length of the piston going into the master cylinder from the brake pedal. If it is not the correct length it will not matter what wonderful brake bleeding system you get.
_________________
Current VW's:

71 Westfalia https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=633955

74 Super Beetle Convertible Sun Bug https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=748008

Past VW's:
71 Karmann Ghia Autostick. 17-21. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=727596
70 Karmann Ghia driven 00-03, 67 Karmann Ghia 91-97, 74 Karmann Ghia 92-94, 71 Karmann Ghia 87-92, 74 Super Beetle 86-87, 71 Karmann Ghia 85-86 (my avatar)