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you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
This Thread is a great example of why we need our own sections:

This section, as "General Performance/Engines/Transmissions"

Then seperate sections for Type 1 and Type 4

"Type 1 Performance Engine/builds"
"Type 4 Performance Engine/builds"

A person should be able to post a thread about their engine questions and not be bombarded with people trying to get them to switch to a different engine. Way to many threads have been cut short by bully personalities that come into every thread and post essays that fillibuster the thread till its death, or others that are so self absorbed posting their same pictures over and over that they cant see when someone is saying politily to GTFO.

Ok how about a section for regular street driver engine builds too then. Every time someone posts about wanting to do a stock or mild street engine they are swamped with replies that are completely off the deep end by the "reach for the moon or nothing" crowd that muddies the waters of reality so badly it's pathetic to watch never mind be the one trying to get good information.

Just sayin...
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

spencerfvee

I want you go know in all honesty I was not trying to do anything but help you. I am sure the other T-4 guys were thinking the same as me.

You admitted your error in posting and with all the huge posts did not see it till someone brought it to my attention. So that was my error, lets leave it at that.

So we both made errors and this entire post got out of hand.

If we were in the same room at this moment I would extend my hand to you and say lets end this.

Hope you feel the same.

Joe
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Chickensoup
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

I wonder how effective meth or windex injection would be on an na type 1. Normally you hear people with forced induction using meth injection but because the vw cylinder heats naturally run hotter, it may be worth a try.
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Dauz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Chickensoup wrote:
windex injection


I hear it helps with broken bones and the common cold Smile
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Dauz wrote:
Chickensoup wrote:
windex injection


I hear it helps with broken bones and the common cold Smile


On a motor I'd expect it might even cure leaky heads or a pulled stud..
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spencerfvee
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Dauz wrote:
spencerfvee wrote:
when i posted this forum . i made a mistake and did not say type 1 motor build later on i corrected my mistake . because i was only wanting type 1 motor builds .and i wanted feed back on type1 motor builds . why because there are all kinds of parts for the type 1 motor . the type 1 motor is like the small block chevy motor is to GM . the type1 motor the bread and butter motor . that brings in the money for VW parts Cos that sell air cooled type1 motor parts . and keeps air cooled vws a live . i never dreamed that when i posted this forum . i would upset the type 4 people . like i did . i asked them to stop high jacking my forum . it fell on deaf ears . they turned into bullies .and keep on posting how great type4 motors are .when no one wanted to here about there typ4 build . i could not be live how rude they were to me . and how rude they were to others that posted about how they would build a type1 motor . . i dont like getting into pissing contests . NO ONE WINS. when Evert B started the forums on the samba i think he wanted people that posted on forum .to get a long with each other . well i think Evert B would if he read my forum he would not be happy with the way the type4 people acted . the last thing i want is to have this forum locked down by the act of very small group of people that wanted to have there say on type 4 motor build . they acted like un wanted fools at a party . were every one at the party wanted them to leave . but they stayed any way and kept on making a fool of them selfs . spencerfvee my 1600cc dick landy super charged motor . that will go 300,000 miles joke
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I say this with love, Sir. But your posts are extremely painful to read. It's not what you say, its how you format it. I'd rather read 100 Mark Tucker posts before yours..

nice supercharged motor!
..................................................................... i all so say this with love .how much money did my friend mark tucker pay you to tell me that / only pain full to type4 people .lol spencerfvee ps i am a gear head not a english major like you .

Last edited by spencerfvee on Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Actually I find Mark *much harder* to read and often give up on his longer posts. Oh well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
Actually I find Mark *much harder* to read and often give up on his longer posts. Oh well.
...................................................................................i like mark hes in his own world . i think he does it to mess with people . i hope we can get back to people posting on how to build a type1 motors i am sure people are getting tired of the pissing contest . take care spencerfvee .......... ...............MAN SHOT AND KILLED AT DRAG STRIP.IN OHIO .................................... just on the news here in ohio. i would like to say a very sad thing happend at drag way 42 sunday night . a race track in ohio. i have raced at since 1969 . a guy in a silver truck . was doing burn out in the pits and was driving real crazy all most hitting people. people were getting hit by rocks from his tires spinning .the owner of drag way 42 went down and talked to .the man in the silver truck .the man in the truck got pissed off and went crazy on the fans . then fans started hitting the guy trying stop him . the man in the truck got in his truck and came out with a gun in his hand. shot and killed a man and started firing his gun at every one in the pits . one fan pulled his gun out trying to take the guy out with his gun and stop him from killing more people . the man in the truck got in his friends car and left the drag strip and is a wanted man . there were a 2 other people that got shot . the man fired over 20 shots from his gun . what the hell is wrong with people now a days sorry guys about the long post spencerfvee

Last edited by spencerfvee on Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:38 pm; edited 5 times in total
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spencerfvee
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
spencerfvee

I want you go know in all honesty I was not trying to do anything but help you. I am sure the other T-4 guys were thinking the same as me.

You admitted your error in posting and with all the huge posts did not see it till someone brought it to my attention. So that was my error, lets leave it at that.

So we both made errors and this entire post got out of hand.

If we were in the same room at this moment I would extend my hand to you and say lets end this.

Hope you feel the same.

Joe
........................................joe we are cool. no big deal thank you spencerfvee
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Ok great !!!! Back to Motoring!!!!!
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Floating VW
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

spencerfvee wrote:
... wow i learned some thing new . i was shocked at all the water thats in the oil . may i ask how you made your water separation system ? thanks spencerfvee

Sure. I go into more detail about the oil pre-heater and the air/oil separator here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=712040&highlight=
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Chickensoup wrote:
I wonder how effective meth or windex injection would be on an na type 1. Normally you hear people with forced induction using meth injection but because the vw cylinder heats naturally run hotter, it may be worth a try.


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Totally disregard it's on a type 4 . both my engines run water/meth injection , it is a great way to control cylinder head temps .
On my 2.6 I use is to fill a slightly lean spot on transition from idle to main circuit . If done correctly , the water/meth when injected turns into a vapour , simple physics states that any time a liquid changes state to a vapour it absorbs energy . (heat) that is how AC or a fridge works . It also shrinks the intake charge . Snow maintain it is like running 115 octane fuel . the trick is how much . it needs tuning like everything else .

Spencer if I have come across as rude that was never my intention and apologise ,same as Joe , if we were face to face I'd defiantly put out my hand for a hand shake . anyone with a passion for their hobby or lifestyle will generally want to prove themselves and convert others , human nature . At the end of the day we all have a passion for old VW's which is awesome .
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Water injection into an N/A engine is old stuff. Farmers were doing it back in the 1940s to maintain the same pulling power and cool running on a hot summer day that they had with the cool night air. No methanol, just water.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

The first water injected engine I'm aware of was the Rumely Oil-Pull of about 1910. Twin cylinder, kerosene powered, air cooled (they called it oil cooled). I think the water injection on the Rumely was as much to prevent pre ignition as it was to control temps. Same on the old gas tractors. Between the carbon build up, crude ignition systems, poor combustion chamber design, and thermo-syphon cooling systems, the cooler you could keep the heads the less likely you were to pre ignite. It did produce more power though, denser air/fuel charge, water vapor flashing to steam gives a bit of torque as well, and it lowers the EGT too. Now its pretty much just the tractor pull guys running water injection (and washer fluid too I've heard), mostly to keep their pistons from melting, but also for the reasons listed above. Not a bad idea for air cooled VW heads.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

I see nothing has changed sinceI I took a break in October.......now I remember why I took a break........maybe I'll take another one
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Dad said that the tractors he ran were set up to just use water out of the rad. It would be hot water but it still did the job. Like Farmer Bill says it's the conversion to steam where the big gain is.

Back then very few farmers could justify the expense of anti freeze, just drained the system at night if it looked like frost.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

bugguy1967 wrote:
Btw Ray. I have two T4 projects. I love em, but don't care to push them much for my own selfish reasons. The more people we get to jump ship, the less cores that will be available. So 🤐...



That....is so true!

And...Spencervee......where....where.....where...where....did I EVER say or point out that the type 4 was.............BETTER.....than type 1? or the best?


Where?


Your original post was asking about a 200k vw engine. You did not STATE type 1 or type 4.....and...did not state a budget.

I am NOT trying to convince you to use a type 4......simply pointing out that most of the pieces and characteristics you NEED for a 200k ACVW engine...........ALREADY EXIST.....in the type 4......STUDY IT! Use some of that. Type 4 is simply an improved type 1.....for good reason.

But hey...it appears you are looking for a thread to suggest every manner of exotica to make a type 1 last as long as an ....improved type 1...which is nothing but a type 4.

You also did not suggest...what SIZE engine you were looking for....what HP and torque range....or how you plan to drive it.

One could simply build a 4o horse with an aftermarket oil filter and a counterweighted crank with aftermarket injection and we could have solved this on page 2.

Don't act like people are jacking your thread who are not. Just be more careful in your original post and title.



Ray
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

To build a long living type 1, I would overbuild it, meaning build a 120hp engine like its gonna have 200hp. Nice thing about Type 1 stuff, you can point and click every item and have it all show up and build it. Below is a Longblock with all this in mind, about $4200 total when you add in some other small parts.

1968cc Thickwall
Order Aluminum case from Brothers ($1200 total) but have bronze bushings in lifter bores installed, as bronze lasts longer then aluminum or mag. Opt for the groove as this includes the super long drill bit operation that is scary to do but gives better oiling. 94mm, and 10mm studs.
http://www.brothersvwmachineshop.com/machine.htm

Cb 74mm Forged Crank $229
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1107.htm

12lb German forged flywheel from DPR $150
http://dprmachine.com/products/flywheels-2/

H-Beam Rods $259, remember we are not building "just enough to last" we are overbuilding it, and its only $100 more then others
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1289.htm

92 Thickwalls-$234
https://aapistons.com/products/92mmx69mm-thick-wall-fits-94mm-head-cylinder

CB2236 Cam$99, which works well with 1.25 rockers. It similar to 110, but gets its lift more from ratio rocker then all from the cam. Its more gentle, and overall more powerfull. Again, less stress on valve train
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2236.htm

CB lightweight lifters $178:
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1537.htm

CB Chromoly Pushrods $79
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1628.htm

Magnum Straight Cut gears from Brothers $129
http://www.brothersvwmachineshop.com/parts.htm

CB Panchito heads with CNC chambers $670

CB Mil Spec 10mm Chromo head studs $69
Again overbuilt for strength, not elastic 8mm for the low horsepower theorists.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1223.htm

CB stainless pushrod tubes $39
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1567.htm

CB thinline sump $119, or Empi equivilant that has the drain plug
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1770.htm

Stainless teflon oil lines with steel AN fittings about $120. I ordered mine from hose shop and ordered steel fittings.

30m oil pump $56
You can adjust your oil weight accordingly down better then you can adjusting up, this is the reason for the 30.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254939531587?epid=3019850105&hash=item3b5b948943:g:TUEAAOSwKZ1gdKjE

This will be a overbuilt type 1 with durability and long life in mind.
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

200.000 miles / 300.000 km without a valve job? I want to see which valves, guides and seats last like that in a VW engine Liar

cylinder and ring life could be more feasible with some fancy rings, long rods and sane rpm, along with proper air and oil filtration
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: you were to build a stock type 1 vw motor to go 200,000 miles Reply with quote

Dauz wrote:
Chickensoup wrote:
windex injection


I hear it helps with broken bones and the common cold Smile


Only if you are Greek!!!
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