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Burman Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 12:23 pm Post subject: 1971 convertible front bow |
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When dismanteling my convertible top I recognised something
strange (except the fact that the wooden bow was way worse than I thought).
As you can see there is a rubberized ”edge” in the bow. Looks original... but is it really?
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crocteau Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Philaburbia
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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Burman wrote: |
As you can see there is a rubberized ”edge” in the bow. Looks original... but is it really? |
My '71 had the original top when I acquired it, and it had the same thing (see below). Also had some discussion about it: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214389.
It may depend on what time of year your Ghia was manufactured as to what seal was used, i.e., I came across this that may be of interest:
[/url] |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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That's interesting, I've had two original bows for a 71 and neither of those had that rubber seal attached to the bow. I was always under the impression, and had a rubber strip/seal previously, which was tacked down over the top of the windshield frame. When I redid my top several years ago, I remember I bought that rubber strip from either JBugs or WCM, I lived close by both shops, and attached to windshield frame. It looked similar to the ad for the part in your pic. Maybe it was supposed to be attached to the bow and not the frame. Now wondering if I should attach that piece outside the front bow after I slip a new top cover back on, or should I stick it down to the frame where it definitely helped seal off that area when I had it previously.
What do you think Charlie?
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3009 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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Here's a picture of a frame and main bow from a 1972. The frame is untouched other than the top fabric being removed. When I bought it 2 years ago, after sitting in an attic for 30 years and the seller said it was all original. There is a red felt covering over the entire top side of the main bow. The under side has a strip of foam that is glued directly to the wood?
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Burman Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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Thanks for the responds guys.
Ok, seems original then. Which also means I shouldn’t have the seal
that is attached on the outside.
Its actually three layers. Two layers of black rubber (that fades out towards the endings) and one softer (sponge type) glued on the rubber (which is fastened with staples to the bow).
Learned something new today then |
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crocteau Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Philaburbia
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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rbsurfguy wrote: |
What do you think |
Hi Jeff, wade through that link I posted for Burman and then, if you have the stamina, slog through this one: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4693316&highlight=#4693316 and you'll get a good idea what I think The primary reason I included that ad from www.karmannghia.de was to underscore that there is an outfit actually in Germany that claims that zigzag seal was "original NOS 8/1971-1974" to help folks realize what an excellent resource Vince (aka Ghiaddict) was when he was around here. In my limited experience I've not seen a header bow seal attached to the windshield frame. I think you could shop around to find the dense spongy rubber seal that has a rectangular profile and glue it directly to the header bow, or you could do the same with that zigzag seal, and in either case install the top cover so the fabric covers the seal. I think a hidden seal gives the best appearance. |
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 10965
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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The only seal is the foam like rubber one that glues to the wood header bow and is covered by the top. That ridiculous outside seal is put there by shops that don’t know what they are doing or by people who’s bow is show and it leaks and they are trying to damn the flow of water and cold air.
The installation manual is pretty clear on this. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1973 Ghia convertible |
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Disc Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009 Posts: 555 Location: Europe
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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Braukuche wrote: |
The only seal is the foam like rubber one that glues to the wood header bow and is covered by the top. That ridiculous outside seal is put there by shops that don’t know what they are doing or by people who’s bow is show and it leaks and they are trying to damn the flow of water and cold air.
The installation manual is pretty clear on this. |
Correct! Only one seal - I've seen that many, many times. _________________ The glory never gets old, just need new paint.
-------------------------------------------------
Nick |
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crocteau Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Philaburbia
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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I reckon it depends which year Ghia you're talking about...
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:27 am Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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OK, well thanks for helping me as well. So bottom line, put the spongy seal directly on the front wood bow, got it. Good to know before I slip the cover over.
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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crocteau Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Philaburbia
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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rbsurfguy wrote: |
OK, well thanks for helping me as well. So bottom line, put the spongy seal directly on the front wood bow, got it. Good to know before I slip the cover over.
Jeff |
Jeff, affirmative, per the Karmann Ghia Parts Manual here on theSamba that would be the seal with part number 151871349A for chassis number up to 141 3200 000. If your chassis number is 142 2000 001 or after and you aim to be strictly correct go for the seal with part number 141871609 along with the left and right insert bars, part numbers 141871611 and 141871612 respectively. Judging from my original header bow I'm inclined to think that the rubber was vulcanized onto the wood rather than glued, i.e., I found it practically impossible to separate the rubber from the wood without destroying it. Also the original seal was shaped to blend with the curve of the bow's leading edge. I think if you use a strong epoxy or glue you could shape the spongy rubber seal with a band saw. I tried it by hand but lacking your skills I went with the later seal instead, and of course then I had to fabricate the insert bars as the only catalog that listed them was HOG and they were NLA. Given the configuration of the later seal it made more sense to me to mount it over the fabric of the top cover, but as Braukuche points out only people who don't know what they're doing would do that, and that shoe is just my size Burman, I apologize for leading your thread astray; it just comes naturally for one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 4:31 am Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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Thank you Sir, for the detailed breakdown. Being a knuckledragger myself, if I don't know how to do something "correct" I just do whatever works. My Ghia is far from stock or correct. I'll do a search for those seals, but if unavailable will find something suitable. Like I said, I have never seen or had that seal on any tops previously, and what I used on the windshield frame before worked perfectly to keep rain out.
If anyone has a supplier for these seals, please post. I've not found any vendor yet.
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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crocteau Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Philaburbia
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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Done! Thank you Sir as always...shoulda thought of Chuck's First!!
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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floppybear Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2014 Posts: 6 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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I am actually working on replacing my top on my 71 Ghia as well. I have removed everything but the headliner (still in good condition). My question is what insulation material did you use... the original appears to be horse-hair which eventually bleeds through the headliner resulting in stains. I was thinking of going to Lowes and picking up some foam material, but concerned about bacterial buildup in the foam padding. Any suggestions? |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3009 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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floppybear wrote: |
I am actually working on replacing my top on my 71 Ghia as well. I have removed everything but the headliner (still in good condition). My question is what insulation material did you use... the original appears to be horse-hair which eventually bleeds through the headliner resulting in stains. I was thinking of going to Lowes and picking up some foam material, but concerned about bacterial buildup in the foam padding. Any suggestions? |
Anything you need for a convertible top, even answers to questions, Chucks is where to go. I have a new top, padding, and liner for my 71 and it all came from Chucks. They install tops as well so they are very knowledgeable:
https://chucksconvertibleparts.com _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
Last edited by Marcdeb on Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3009 Location: Vermont
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 10965
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow |
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I used the pad kit Chuck sells, it’s not to puffy at all and provides a nice fit. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1973 Ghia convertible |
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