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1971 convertible front bow
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Burman
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 12:23 pm    Post subject: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

When dismanteling my convertible top I recognised something
strange (except the fact that the wooden bow was way worse than I thought).
As you can see there is a rubberized ”edge” in the bow. Looks original... but is it really?
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Burman wrote:
As you can see there is a rubberized ”edge” in the bow. Looks original... but is it really?
My '71 had the original top when I acquired it, and it had the same thing (see below). Also had some discussion about it: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214389.
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It may depend on what time of year your Ghia was manufactured as to what seal was used, i.e., I came across this that may be of interest:
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[/url]
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rbsurfguy
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

That's interesting, I've had two original bows for a 71 and neither of those had that rubber seal attached to the bow. I was always under the impression, and had a rubber strip/seal previously, which was tacked down over the top of the windshield frame. When I redid my top several years ago, I remember I bought that rubber strip from either JBugs or WCM, I lived close by both shops, and attached to windshield frame. It looked similar to the ad for the part in your pic. Maybe it was supposed to be attached to the bow and not the frame. Now wondering if I should attach that piece outside the front bow after I slip a new top cover back on, or should I stick it down to the frame where it definitely helped seal off that area when I had it previously.

What do you think Charlie?
Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Here's a picture of a frame and main bow from a 1972. The frame is untouched other than the top fabric being removed. When I bought it 2 years ago, after sitting in an attic for 30 years and the seller said it was all original. There is a red felt covering over the entire top side of the main bow. The under side has a strip of foam that is glued directly to the wood?

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68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Burman
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Thanks for the responds guys.
Ok, seems original then. Which also means I shouldn’t have the seal
that is attached on the outside.
Its actually three layers. Two layers of black rubber (that fades out towards the endings) and one softer (sponge type) glued on the rubber (which is fastened with staples to the bow).
Learned something new today then Very Happy
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

rbsurfguy wrote:
What do you think
Hi Jeff, wade through that link I posted for Burman and then, if you have the stamina, slog through this one: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4693316&highlight=#4693316 and you'll get a good idea what I think Laughing The primary reason I included that ad from www.karmannghia.de was to underscore that there is an outfit actually in Germany that claims that zigzag seal was "original NOS 8/1971-1974" to help folks realize what an excellent resource Vince (aka Ghiaddict) was when he was around here. In my limited experience I've not seen a header bow seal attached to the windshield frame. I think you could shop around to find the dense spongy rubber seal that has a rectangular profile and glue it directly to the header bow, or you could do the same with that zigzag seal, and in either case install the top cover so the fabric covers the seal. I think a hidden seal gives the best appearance. Wink
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

The only seal is the foam like rubber one that glues to the wood header bow and is covered by the top. That ridiculous outside seal is put there by shops that don’t know what they are doing or by people who’s bow is show and it leaks and they are trying to damn the flow of water and cold air.
The installation manual is pretty clear on this.
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1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
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1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
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Disc
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
The only seal is the foam like rubber one that glues to the wood header bow and is covered by the top. That ridiculous outside seal is put there by shops that don’t know what they are doing or by people who’s bow is show and it leaks and they are trying to damn the flow of water and cold air.
The installation manual is pretty clear on this.


Correct! Only one seal - I've seen that many, many times.
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

I reckon it depends which year Ghia you're talking about... Wink
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rbsurfguy
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

OK, well thanks for helping me as well. So bottom line, put the spongy seal directly on the front wood bow, got it. Good to know before I slip the cover over.
Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
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See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

rbsurfguy wrote:
OK, well thanks for helping me as well. So bottom line, put the spongy seal directly on the front wood bow, got it. Good to know before I slip the cover over.
Jeff
Jeff, affirmative, per the Karmann Ghia Parts Manual here on theSamba that would be the seal with part number 151871349A for chassis number up to 141 3200 000. If your chassis number is 142 2000 001 or after and you aim to be strictly correct go for the seal with part number 141871609 along with the left and right insert bars, part numbers 141871611 and 141871612 respectively. Judging from my original header bow I'm inclined to think that the rubber was vulcanized onto the wood rather than glued, i.e., I found it practically impossible to separate the rubber from the wood without destroying it. Also the original seal was shaped to blend with the curve of the bow's leading edge. I think if you use a strong epoxy or glue you could shape the spongy rubber seal with a band saw. I tried it by hand but lacking your skills I went with the later seal instead, and of course then I had to fabricate the insert bars as the only catalog that listed them was HOG and they were NLA. Given the configuration of the later seal it made more sense to me to mount it over the fabric of the top cover, but as Braukuche points out only people who don't know what they're doing would do that, and that shoe is just my size Laughing Burman, I apologize for leading your thread astray; it just comes naturally for one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children Embarassed
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rbsurfguy
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Thank you Sir, for the detailed breakdown. Being a knuckledragger myself, if I don't know how to do something "correct" I just do whatever works. My Ghia is far from stock or correct. I'll do a search for those seals, but if unavailable will find something suitable. Like I said, I have never seen or had that seal on any tops previously, and what I used on the windshield frame before worked perfectly to keep rain out.

If anyone has a supplier for these seals, please post. I've not found any vendor yet.
Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

rbsurfguy wrote:
If anyone has a supplier for these seals, please post.
Jeff, for a start you can find the two types of header bow seals at Chuck's Convertible Parts: https://chucksconvertibleparts.com/index.php/categ...-1971.html and https://chucksconvertibleparts.com/index.php/categ...-seal.html
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rbsurfguy
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Done! Thank you Sir as always...shoulda thought of Chuck's First!!
Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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floppybear
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

I am actually working on replacing my top on my 71 Ghia as well. I have removed everything but the headliner (still in good condition). My question is what insulation material did you use... the original appears to be horse-hair which eventually bleeds through the headliner resulting in stains. I was thinking of going to Lowes and picking up some foam material, but concerned about bacterial buildup in the foam padding. Any suggestions?
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

floppybear wrote:
I am actually working on replacing my top on my 71 Ghia as well. I have removed everything but the headliner (still in good condition). My question is what insulation material did you use... the original appears to be horse-hair which eventually bleeds through the headliner resulting in stains. I was thinking of going to Lowes and picking up some foam material, but concerned about bacterial buildup in the foam padding. Any suggestions?


Anything you need for a convertible top, even answers to questions, Chucks is where to go. I have a new top, padding, and liner for my 71 and it all came from Chucks. They install tops as well so they are very knowledgeable:
https://chucksconvertibleparts.com
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68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc


Last edited by Marcdeb on Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rbsurfguy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Marc, your links don't work, I think you were trying this
https://chucksconvertibleparts.com/index.php/front-top-seal-karmann-ghia-convertible-1958-1971.html

and this? https://chucksconvertibleparts.com/index.php/front-top-seal-karmann-ghia-convertible-1958-1971.html

The inner padding on the top I took off was still good, foam wrapped pad on the top and the vinyl covered horse hair padding for the rear corners, so I'm going to try to use those first and see how they look. Don't want to over pad. Look through the How To Sticky on the Forum main page for installing a convertible top. Lots of good examples there and inspiration.
Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

Jeff,
I goofed again. d'oh! Thanks for pointing it out. My intention was to include the link to Chucks Home Page. it's corrected.
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68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 1971 convertible front bow Reply with quote

rbsurfguy wrote:
Marc, your links don't work, I think you were trying this
https://chucksconvertibleparts.com/index.php/front-top-seal-karmann-ghia-convertible-1958-1971.html

and this? https://chucksconvertibleparts.com/index.php/front-top-seal-karmann-ghia-convertible-1958-1971.html

The inner padding on the top I took off was still good, foam wrapped pad on the top and the vinyl covered horse hair padding for the rear corners, so I'm going to try to use those first and see how they look. Don't want to over pad. Look through the How To Sticky on the Forum main page for installing a convertible top. Lots of good examples there and inspiration.
Jeff


I used the pad kit Chuck sells, it’s not to puffy at all and provides a nice fit.
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Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1973 Ghia convertible
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