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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1381
Location: Newfoundland
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 Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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My front brakes are acting up, one grabs more than the other. I'm about to go find out why. In case I need two new calipers is there a difference between IAP 3116151078BR and IAP 3116151078EC found on RockAuto? Big price difference. Research indicates that one is a Varga TRW brand while the other is an unknown brand.
I don't think I am going to rebuild them as they are already two different aftermarket calipers. |
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vwsquare2
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2016
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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Is 3116151078BR the Varga TRW brand? I found 3116151078EC at CIP1 listed as made in China for $59.99. They say it is a "Quality Reproduction" and note their "Original German Quality or Equivalent" is made by TRW/Varga in Brazil. It is listed as $159.99 which is similar to what you found on Rock Auto. However, CIP1 lists the part number as 311-615-107-8A instead of 3116151078BR. Not sure about the part number but the price difference is probably due to where the caliper is made.
What year is your car? These calipers are only good on Type 3's made before February/1971. If yours is a late '71 or 72-73, these won't work as the earlier model calipers are smaller. I couldn't find calipers for my 1973 Squareback and had to have those rebuilt at a place in Virginia. I believe the shop used White Post Restorations but I'll need to confirm if you are interested. Sounds like you are not since you have aftermarket calipers (mine were VW). If you have a car built before 2/71, replacing the aftermarket calipers may make sense. |
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bassam
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2006
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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For late models, you can upgrade de 1978-1983 BMW 320i calipers, they fit and have bigger pistons to provide you with better braking. The pads are the same. I tried it and it works like a charm.
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1973 VW Squareback |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17969
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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I have used early Type 3 2.25" bolt pattern brake calipers in my Boneyard for $120 shipped.
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22399
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| vwsquare2 wrote: |
| Is 3116151078BR the Varga TRW brand? I found 3116151078EC at CIP1 listed as made in China for $59.99. They say it is a "Quality Reproduction" and note their "Original German Quality or Equivalent" is made by TRW/Varga in Brazil. It is listed as $159.99 which is similar to what you found on Rock Auto. However, CIP1 lists the part number as 311-615-107-8A instead of 3116151078BR. Not sure about the part number but the price difference is probably due to where the caliper is made. |
Keep in mind that most of the "early style" calipers have 40mm pistons are for Karmann Ghias, and are just sold for type 3s. In reality type 3s use 42mm calipers. Just a heads up.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1381
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Keep in mind that most of the "early style" calipers have 40mm pistons are for Karmann Ghias, and are just sold for type 3s. In reality type 3s use 42mm calipers. Just a heads up. |
I have a '67. I wonder if that might be the problem. One side has 40mm and the other side has 42mm. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22399
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Keep in mind that most of the "early style" calipers have 40mm pistons are for Karmann Ghias, and are just sold for type 3s. In reality type 3s use 42mm calipers. Just a heads up. |
I have a '67. I wonder if that might be the problem. One side has 40mm and the other side has 42mm. |
Yup, that's more than likely your problem. You might want to contact Jim Adney and see if he could match you up with another genuine type 3 caliper (42mm). I'm pretty sure you replaced the front hoses on it when you went thru the brakes, otherwise that would be the next thing I'd look at doing (after installing a matching set of calipers).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1381
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Yup, that's more than likely your problem. You might want to contact Jim Adney and see if he could match you up with another genuine type 3 caliper (42mm). I'm pretty sure you replaced the front hoses on it when you went thru the brakes, otherwise that would be the next thing I'd look at doing (after installing a matching set of calipers). |
Hoses are all new. Is there much issue/danger running 40mm instead of 42s? Will it bias the rears too much or something?
Rockauto sells re-man 42s. Maybe I will go with that. $220cad for the pair plus about $20 shipping. Seems reasonable. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Yup, that's more than likely your problem. You might want to contact Jim Adney and see if he could match you up with another genuine type 3 caliper (42mm). I'm pretty sure you replaced the front hoses on it when you went thru the brakes, otherwise that would be the next thing I'd look at doing (after installing a matching set of calipers). |
Hoses are all new. Is there much issue/danger running 40mm instead of 42s? Will it bias the rears too much or something?
Rockauto sells re-man 42s. Maybe I will go with that. $220cad for the pair plus about $20 shipping. Seems reasonable. |
Get another 42mm....yes....its a significant difference...especially since the right caliper has the internal pin and chuck system to work with the type 3 rotor flex.
And...you should just rebuild them both when you get the other 42mm caliper.
This kit is the correct kit for the late type 3 caliper with 42mm piston. It is the same caliper as early 411/412 and 914 which is why this link states 70-72 Porsche 914
https://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/1925563/4747234.htm
Best quality kits....new seals, new boots and rings, new bolts, new anti-rotation plates, new safety locking plates....and new caliper half bridge seals....for $17.95 per caliper?....thats a steal!
Ray |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1381
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Get another 42mm....yes....its a significant difference...especially since the right caliper has the internal pin and chuck system to work with the type 3 rotor flex.
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K, I will just go out and buy 2 rebuild 42s.
| raygreenwood wrote: |
And...you should just rebuild them both when you get the other 42mm caliper.
This kit is the correct kit for the late type 3 caliper with 42mm piston. It is the same caliper as early 411/412 and 914 which is why this link states 70-72 Porsche 914
https://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/1925563/4747234.htm
Best quality kits....new seals, new boots and rings, new bolts, new anti-rotation plates, new safety locking plates....and new caliper half bridge seals....for $17.95 per caliper?....thats a steal!
Ray |
I should rebuild them and I am sure that is a quality kit and $18 a caliper does seem like a steal however, the $138.66 shipping +$3 handling seems a bit excessive and not justifiable. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| old_man wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
Get another 42mm....yes....its a significant difference...especially since the right caliper has the internal pin and chuck system to work with the type 3 rotor flex.
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K, I will just go out and buy 2 rebuild 42s.
| raygreenwood wrote: |
And...you should just rebuild them both when you get the other 42mm caliper.
This kit is the correct kit for the late type 3 caliper with 42mm piston. It is the same caliper as early 411/412 and 914 which is why this link states 70-72 Porsche 914
https://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/1925563/4747234.htm
Best quality kits....new seals, new boots and rings, new bolts, new anti-rotation plates, new safety locking plates....and new caliper half bridge seals....for $17.95 per caliper?....thats a steal!
Ray |
I should rebuild them and I am sure that is a quality kit and $18 a caliper does seem like a steal however, the $138.66 shipping +$3 handling seems a bit excessive and not justifiable. |
Damn....must be the shipping to Newfoundland. But....at roughly a 1 pound flat pack...if thats the cost for shipping to you....what would the cost be to ship two rebuilt calipers and 20X the weight?
Or...is it just the general parcel cost regardless of weight?
As far as worth...or value....unless someone like Jim Adney (or me) is rebuilding them....I have not seen any rebuilds or "remans" in the last five years or so that are worth any amount of money. The reman houses are turning out pure crap.
Far too many of them are being re-bored (just never needed) and rebuilt with non-stock, oversized parts. Yeah...they may work well ...or not....but you will never be able to rebuild them again.
So...just saying.....that currently the highest "value" on the market for rebuilt calipers....is you rebuilding your own with a first class kit.
Its actually not that hard at all.
$177.66 for rock solid calipers with high class seals....so you KNOW what's in them?
Thats $88.83 per caliper for better quality than you can currently buy.
Just sayin....
This rebuild how too may seem overly long....and for most calipers its not this involved. Don't let it scare you.
This is long because it shows how to fix virtually every problem in them from grading what's rebuildable and what's not....to stripped or broken bleeder screws...broken bolts....how to paint them clean them...what tools you need for what tasks etc.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658176
Ray |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1381
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Damn....must be the shipping to Newfoundland. But....at roughly a 1 pound flat pack...if thats the cost for shipping to you....what would the cost be to ship two rebuilt calipers and 20X the weight?
Or...is it just the general parcel cost regardless of weight?
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Most likely a combination of a broken UPS shipping calculator or PMB not inputting the correct package weight/size. Not to mention UPS would probably charge me $50-75 brokerage fees on the back end.
Rockauto charges $20 shipping for the pair of calipers.
I got a box of live plants rush shipped from Indonesia for $75 in shipping (they were light).
In short, international shipping is really weird when it starts to include shipping calculators, vendor discounts, and other stuff.
| raygreenwood wrote: |
As far as worth...or value....unless someone like Jim Adney (or me) is rebuilding them....I have not seen any rebuilds or "remans" in the last five years or so that are worth any amount of money. The reman houses are turning out pure crap.
Far too many of them are being re-bored (just never needed) and rebuilt with non-stock, oversized parts. Yeah...they may work well ...or not....but you will never be able to rebuild them again.
So...just saying.....that currently the highest "value" on the market for rebuilt calipers....is you rebuilding your own with a first class kit.
Its actually not that hard at all.
$177.66 for rock solid calipers with high class seals....so you KNOW what's in them?
Thats $88.83 per caliper for better quality than you can currently buy.
Just sayin....
This rebuild how too may seem overly long....and for most calipers its not this involved. Don't let it scare you.
This is long because it shows how to fix virtually every problem in them from grading what's rebuildable and what's not....to stripped or broken bleeder screws...broken bolts....how to paint them clean them...what tools you need for what tasks etc.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658176
Ray |
I would rebuild my own calipers but the ones that are on there now are no good. I can't turn a 40mm into a 42mm. I've done plenty in the past and you are correct, it's not that hard. Just a little messy.
Anyways, we shall see what shows up at my door step in a week or so. Maybe it's complete garbage or maybe is usable. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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Yep....I get that.
Just be sure when you get them.....and this goes for ANY braje cylinder ....especially master cylinders. Strip it and clean it with denatured alcohol.
Not saying to split your rebuilt calipers apart......just pull the boots, pistons and bleeder valves and rinse them out, re-lube and reassemble.
Its stunning how much crap i find even in brand new....non rebuilt brake hydraulics.
Ray |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13265
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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If it's significantly cheaper, you can have them sent to me and I will forward for actual cost. Someone in here was oversees but had a military APO box. I was able to send him an airtex fuel pump for hundreds cheaper LOL
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22399
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Front stock caliper replacement question. |
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| old_man wrote: |
Hoses are all new. Is there much issue/danger running 40mm instead of 42s? Will it bias the rears too much or something? |
I believe John Jaranson and Jim Adney calculated that the difference between 40mm pistons versus 42mm pistons resulted in a 10% change (loss) in braking. I haven't noticed a bias change in braking with 40's over the correct 42's. But then I've had the 40's on since the late 80's when I got the car (didn't know of the difference back then).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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