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1st time engine builder
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Hello, I would like to know if I will be fine rebuilding a 1679 without doing work to the case ex: decking, case savers, align bore, etc. So far I’m reusing stock crank, stock 1500sp rods, 88mm thick walls, Engle W100 cam, Engle lifters. Will be ordering 90.5 heads when I figure out deck height. So my question is will I be fine using the case as is or is it a must to do machine work. My goal is to build a reliable motor nothing crazy. Thanks.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Only way to know is to tear it down and measure it and inspect it. Sorry, no other way to answer that question.
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

I cleaned the case twice and std bearings fit tight. I also had the crank mic and rods and all within specs
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Junito11 wrote:
I cleaned the case twice and std bearings fit tight. I also had the crank mic and rods and all within specs

I would get case savers at a minimum.
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Dauz
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

if you run your fingernail across the saddles at any point and it catches, you more than likely should get align bored.
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

I ran my finger nails across the saddles and no catching. I already ordered and check the bearings and they are a tight fit.

I just want to make sure I’ll be fine building it without savers and decking etc
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

It will work but its not exactly reccomended. For longevity case savers have proven themselves to be very effective at what they do. Without them you will need to be much more careful building it, torquing, etc and even then you might have a problem after a while.

Decking the case is also very helpful for getting the cylinders to seal properly without leaks. If you do not deck the case it will eventually start to weep around the barrels, leak oil, dirty up the motor. Decking the case will also make stock deck a height a little tighter which has its own added benefits as far as efficiency and perfomance.
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

You will find out you need case savers when you go to tighten the very last two head studs, after you have everything fully cleaned, sealer perfectly applied, the other side head fully torqued and done. Those last studs won't take the torque, and will never tighten up because the threads are pulling out of the soft case.

Then you get to take the entire thing back apart, clean it all, install the case savers, and then do the assembly all over again.

I have found the '67-'70ish 1500cc SP's were the worst at stripping head studs. I have torn down lots engines with ruined threads.

If the case savers are correctly installed, the case doesn't need to be decked. Especially on an 85 bore.

Brian
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Ok thanks, I’ve reached out to 2 VW shops for pricing and turnaround time on savers, decking align bore and thrust cut
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

And here is where the snowball starts.....

If you are doing all the other work, and the case is getting decked, you might as well have them bore it for 90.5's as well.

All else equal, the 1776cc will be a night and day improvement over a 1679. Build it just as you were, but with the larger cylinders. The cost for them to bore the cylinder holes shouldn't be to much more at this point. The P&C sets cost the same.

I won't build a stock bore engine unless its for something special. Most all used cased NEED to be decked at minimum to get them back to square and even. The increase in displacement for the minimal cost is far to good to pass up.

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evanfrucht
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Brian_e wrote:

I have found the '67-'70ish 1500cc SP's were the worst at stripping head studs. I have torn down lots engines with ruined threads.
Brian

Yep, on the first or second top end job it's over. Basically a ticking time bomb.

A also agree you should get it bored out for 90.5's or even thick wall 92's. Don't forget about the heads also. Those will need to be opened up to match whatever cylinders you use. This should be cheap. Boring the case and heads for larger cylinders should really be no more than about $20 for each hole at most, or $160 total.

The other machine work is not that expensive either and I would have it balanced too. Overall you are looking at a few hundred dollars but I think you will find it worth it and be glad you did it.

Also of the bearings fit tight you might not even need an align bore. Maybe just a thrust cut. Maybe it's all in spec, no point doing that for no reason. Hard to say. Ask the machinist you trust.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

I already purchased 88mm thick walls. I will be getting 90.5 heads in the future, I was able to speak to one of the shops and he said definitely get savers. He said they will check to see if I need to have it decked when they get the case. He also said the same thing about align bore. He said to put the crank in only no cam and torque the 6 mains to see if it spins with no issues. If there’s issue then align bore. Also will lmk about thrust cut. Hopefully I can send the case out on Monday and turnaround is about a month.
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Ok so I’m being told that my Engle W100 cam will be to much for my stock 64 trans due to the weaker 1st and 2nd gears. Will I be ok or should I install stock camshaft. Thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

I ran my stock 65 trans for 12 years on a 1600 turbo. The last 2 were at the 30 psi and a Web 163, and it was very powerful. Then i put a mild 2054 turbo in it and it broke the axle. Trans is still fine but i replaced it anyway. I would say your trans will be fine with a W100 cam.
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Thanks
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Another question. Since I’m using Engle W100 in an AK case which is a year 73. They came with dish camshaft and the Engle is flat. Will I be able to use the flat style oil pump in the AK case without issues.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Sure you can use that cam. You’ll want the matching oil pump 😀
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Junito11
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

That’s why I’m asking. To make sure the correct oil pump that goes with the flat cam will work in a later style case.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Yes it will work
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder Reply with quote

Thanks
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