Poptop Lift Bar Went Through Roof!

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[Vanagon Nut]

[TMWheelock]

Wow so many responses and such good ideas since I posted this yesterday.

Amazed with this community, makes me feel like I made a good decision buying my Westy.

skills@eurocarsplus

[dobryan]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[0cean]

[Ahwahnee]

[Vanagon Nut]

[Howesight]

It may be my memory failing, but I have never seen an American-spec nor a Canadian-spec Westy ('85 and newer) that did not have those steel reinforcement plates. The plates are almost always rusty on all the specimens that I have seen, so that may explain why some folks don't have them - - they throw the rusty plates out when replacing the pop-top tent. The rust stains in the pop-top flocking are impossible to completely remove, but you can get most of the stains out. A stainless steel plate is the best solution. Note that the 90 degree flange was designed into that plate to give the plate even more rigidity. (On my rigs, I sand-blasted the plates and epoxy primed them before painting.)

To the OP: I suspect that the missing plate is the single largest contributor to your fibreglass failure, but all the causes other mentioned above (like water ingress) contribute also. The scissor hinge does not work properly if the bolts fastening the pop-top to the scissor hinge are loose. Lubing the scissor hinge is also very important. I have noticed that the fibreglass on the early "woody" pop-tops ('80 to '84?) seems thinner, FWIW.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[fxr]

My '84 hasn't got that plate, nor has it any side screws - there's a big gap between the hinge and the side channel.

My pop-top has a Thule on top with HD gas supports - it normally goes up and down very easily. However, occasionally it's a right bugger to get to start to go up, especially after standing in the sun for a few days. The front lip seal gets stuck to the luggage rack, so I have to give an extra thump on each front corner to unstick it before it's possible to lift.

I can readily understand that something like that has happened in the past, weakening a water-compromised fibreglass structure over time. With frozen hinges as well, I'm surprised this hasn't been reported before (AFAIK).
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[DanHoug]

[TMWheelock]

The plot thickens...

On closer examination it looks like there was almost definitely water intrusion at some point.

I'm also missing the reenforcement plates that others have mentioned.

The bracket on the as of now undamaged side shows significant rust as does the roof release bracket. Photos below.

Does anyone sell the roof brackets? I did a little research but didn't find much.

All this being said should I reenforce the drivers side bracket along with the passenger side bracket?

I want to do whatever I can to avoid repeating this problem.

I can also confirm that I do have springs in the arms. As another commentator said the arms will have trouble working if the bolts attaching them to the roof are not tight. That may be the case as I'm finding a lot of rusted bolts.

Also I felt around to see if there were holes for screws to go into where the bracket seems to be missing one and didn't feel anything. I suppose I could drill into the frame and add them myself.

[mikemtnbike]

No plate but yes side screws. My top is a transplant from an 80.

TMwheellock, was this van parked in a grassy field for a long time, next to an ocean, or similar? To me that rust looks like it was caused by internal condensation not external intrusion.

Again, I like oceans plan for carbon fiber repair. I also have repaired boards, as well as bike frames, using carbon fiber patches and they work.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[TMWheelock]

This is indeed a Florida van so it was parked maybe 45 minutes from the Gulf of Mexico for the last eight years at least.

It was also parked on a homestead where there are many trees and much grass.

Could indeed be from internal condensation.

I'll follow ocean's protocol for the repair maybe combining it with the epoxy advice from the West system.

Should I add a plate to reinforce the side that's undamaged?

[DuncanS]

As a boat builder who has repaired Vanagon bumpers and other items, the following are my opinions.

Epoxy is the way to go. 10 oz fiberglass cloth is the way to go. 2" disposable bristle brushes are the way to go. Do not use foam brushes.

1. Grind completely through the top making a hole 6" in diameter and bevel the hole back 4" from its edge. In other words, a ground depression 14" in diameter. Obviously, this is not possible because of the proximity to the edge of the top, but take the hole right to the edge and the feathered taper down the sides.

2. Back the bottom with a piece of plywood sandwiching waxed paper between the ply and the top. Sheetrock screw the ply to the roof right through the ply and roof about an inch in from the full thickness of the unground roof. In other words, the screws will poke up through the roof in the feathered zone. Remove the screws one at a time and replace with brass.

3. Grind the brass screws flush with the top feathered surface.

4. Paint mixed West epoxy resin 105 with 205 slow cure hardener all over the feathered areas.

5. Place a precut piece of 10 oz fiberglass cloth over the hole which laps up about an inch onto the feathered area and wet it out with more resin stippled on. Use a segmented roller to insure wetting out of the fibers.

6. Another piece of cloth 1" bigger and repeat 5.

7. Keep doing this until you have about 5 layers or whatever it takes to build up a thickness greater than the thickness of the original top. You can do this all in one shot, but do not mix more than two squirts of resin from the pump at one time as heat will build up in your coffee cup mix and the epoxy will go off prematurely.

8 Grind it flat the next day and add more cloth if you have low spots.

9. Flip it over, remove the screws and plywood and waxed paper as best you can. Grind a dished area around the patch and go back to step 4. Two layers of cloth should be enough on the underside, so the feathered/tapered area doesn't need to extend more than about an 1 ½ beyond the original hole you made.

10. Clean up the underside and fair both top and bottom surfaces with epoxy thickened to a peanut butter consistency with 407 filler. Depending on how fussy you are, you may need to repeat this step 3 or 4 times to get a perfect surface without divots and ripples.

Sand to a decent surface, prime and paint.

You are now ready to remount the hardware and do not need any metal reinforcing underneath. The patch is far stronger than the rest of the top when new. And your patch is large so it will distribute the loads over a large area.

And Skills was right. Water entered from the mounting bolt holes and soaked the poorly laid up polyester mat and resin and when it froze, weakened it to destruction. Bed your new bolts carefully with Boatlife caulk.

Have fun and welcome to the club of discovering poorly made and maintained parts of your T3. You have a land yacht. Yachts need a lot of care. They are not turn-the-key-and-have-it-all-rosy.

Duncan

[Xevin]

My 85 doesn’t have the side screws or plate. Judging by the flocking on inside roof. It never did. However the ass hat who installed the previous owners very expensive tent. Didn’t tighten down the right rear nut on the bracket bolt to the pop top. The nut was hanging on the last thread I took care of that. Had to hold the bolt outside with vice grips like a surgeon as I snugged up the nut from the inside. Kinda of PITA 11:00 at night and a few beers in. No signs of water intrusion on the flocking, thankfully. Probably because another genius covered the bolt head on the exterior in dumb dumb goo. WTF. Thank you TMWheelock for making me check that out. Good luck with your fix.
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Keep on Busin'

[danfromsyr]

some Yoga chicks shouldn't be on the roof

[jimf909]

[TMWheelock]

Thanks again for all the thoughtful responses. I'm actually looking forward to this fiberglass repair.

I feel empowered with all of your collective knowledge.

It will be a welcome respite from the idle hunting problem I'm also trying to solve.