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otis_bartleh Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009 Posts: 1105 Location: Martinez, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Sidbus wrote: |
Otis,
You described the same problem I was having. Same replacement MC from WW. I got lucky and didn't have to cut threads…was able to get the pin back far enough by slightly bending back the pedal stop. It only took a tiny bit more space. I actually heard the pressure release and my front calipers let go of the wheel.
(and I still have clearance between linkage arm and bottom of floor)
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I had tried that, but I needed even more space... Luck of the draw I guess. _________________ -Adam
'59 Mango Bus
'69 Bug |
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Siggi 66 Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2013 Posts: 29 Location: Gloucester, Virginia, US
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if some PO had lost the 2 spacers from the MC mounting bolts between the front of the footwell & the panel the MC sits on. That might bring the MC back towards the pedals maybe about 1/2" as the gap between the panels closes when the MC mounting bolts were tightened. That would make the rod effectively too long. Just a thought. _________________ Money's just something you need in case you don't die in your sleep tonight. |
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DerrickfromNC1 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008 Posts: 1300 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:44 am Post subject: |
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rking6 wrote: |
Same thing happened to me... I just put a spacer between the MC and the frame.. Works great.. Just a thought. Good Luck!! Bob King.. 63 EZ lOng Beach,, Ca |
I'm having the same problem of brake preload on our 67 delux. Almost locked up the front wheels b4 I got it home & caused the engine to run hot. Front brakes are 944 n/a and rears are IRS beetle. I like the spacer solution because it is less permanent and I plan to install a 73-79 baywindow MC once I convert the rears to 944 discs.
Is it a simple as spacing the MC back by slipping a couple washers between the MC and the mounting flange where the mounting go thru? |
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otis_bartleh Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009 Posts: 1105 Location: Martinez, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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DerrickfromNC1 wrote: |
Is it a simple as spacing the MC back by slipping a couple washers between the MC and the mounting flange where the mounting go thru? |
I don't think that would work as it would probably leave some vertical play. The spacers I've seen pics of were machine to match the outline of the MC where it mounts. _________________ -Adam
'59 Mango Bus
'69 Bug |
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DerrickfromNC1 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008 Posts: 1300 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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One on the right is for a 67 dual circuit master cylinder.
Took a closer look today at the MC and it looks like one from a late baywindow without the spacer that's used for the conversion. Also the plunger if you can call it that is a bolt and on the head of the bolt someone welded some tangs that attached to the brake lever like the original plunger. There is a nut on this makeshift plunger that is used to adjust the play.
It works however the nut was backed up all the way to the unthreaded portion of the shaft at which point the brakes were still preloaded. As a test I placed a couple of washers between the MC and it's mounting flange. It works great, no more preload & the brake pedal fully returns to its original position.
Sounds like I need to get the correct spacer and plunger for my setup. Does anyone sell the conversion parts w/o the MC? |
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VWDUB64B Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013 Posts: 1 Location: FL
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Really appreciate the post. 64 Beetle and same issue bought the Varga MC and preload before I could bolt in. Thanks for all the options on the pushrod. |
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SamboSamba22 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015 Posts: 2772 Location: Benton, Arkansas
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dlicious Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2006 Posts: 245 Location: Spring(pronounced Sprang), TX
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Anyone have any sources for a replacement push rod, I'm in need for one on my single cab, single circuit system with a ATE master cylinder from WolfsburgWest. Also have a WTB ad up. |
I cut the head off a bolt and rounded it on a bench grinder. But that only works if you have the base it screws into..... _________________ '63 Caravelle Camper
dLk |
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SamboSamba22 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015 Posts: 2772 Location: Benton, Arkansas
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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I would look at repairing your old one. Weld it up, grind to finish |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Yeah I’m not having any luck finding one from a single circuit brake system found on early buses. |
Like said above just machine a bolt. I needed to cut mine down on my 59 to work with the new master. I need to make another soon to fit the dual master that will go on. |
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SamboSamba22 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015 Posts: 2772 Location: Benton, Arkansas
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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Verification to what is being stated, the replacement WW ATE single circuit master cylinder causes for a reduced (shortened) push rod.
Below you can see what is left of the one that was on the truck, and the replacement I made from a bolt at the local hardware store.
NOTE: After replicating the original length (as seen above) and installation, it is engaging the master cylinder before the brake is engaging (preload) so I am still needing to shorten the rod to create the proper clearance between push rod and master cylinder. _________________ The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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Nubby Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2010 Posts: 605 Location: Down by the river
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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Brilliant! |
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Bruce Amacker Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 1786 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Skim Rants Master
Joined: April 15, 2001 Posts: 17082 Location: GFK 31 Year Vet
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Verification to what is being stated, the replacement WW ATE single circuit master cylinder causes for a reduced (shortened) push rod.
Below you can see what is left of the one that was on the truck, and the replacement I made from a bolt at the local hardware store.
NOTE: After replicating the original length (as seen above) and installation, it is engaging the master cylinder before the brake is engaging (preload) so I am still needing to shorten the rod to create the proper clearance between push rod and master cylinder. |
I had to do the same thing today _________________ GFK
Samba since before the towers collapsed. Still here.
1953 Kabriolet
1954 Sunroof
1959 Lowlight Ghia vert
1960 Lt Grey Double Cab SMZ LEGIT
1963 Deluxe Turkis Walk Thru 15 Window OG Paint |
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otis_bartleh Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009 Posts: 1105 Location: Martinez, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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Bruce Amacker wrote: |
And you need to grind a rounded "bullet point" on the pushrod. |
I was just thinking the same thing... Beyond that, excellent home made "part"! _________________ -Adam
'59 Mango Bus
'69 Bug |
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62DoKaGuy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 Posts: 1276 Location: Surprise, AZ
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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Reviving this thread to ask/confirm to what length a pushrod should be adjusted in an April ‘59 single cab. The catch is I installed this new, German single circuit master cylinder from Wolfsburg West: https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211611011JGR.
Bentley describes the adjustment for up to April ‘59 at 61-62mm of pushrod length and for May ‘59 onwards at 59-60mm. Which is correct? I need to adjust length from where it is regardless, as it has load on it, which is putting resistance at the wheels. They’ll turn but with some effort (yes, ebrake cable adjustment needs to be confirmed as well)
I’d like to know what the adjustment should be for my situation and adjust from there, as required. Cheers. _________________ ,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
EverettB wrote: |
...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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Back the pushrod out until you have about 1mm of play. Thats it |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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62DoKaGuy wrote: |
Reviving this thread to ask/confirm to what length a pushrod should be adjusted in an April ‘59 single cab. The catch is I installed this new, German single circuit master cylinder from Wolfsburg West: https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211611011JGR.
Bentley describes the adjustment for up to April ‘59 at 61-62mm of pushrod length and for May ‘59 onwards at 59-60mm. Which is correct? I need to adjust length from where it is regardless, as it has load on it, which is putting resistance at the wheels. They’ll turn but with some effort (yes, ebrake cable adjustment needs to be confirmed as well)
I’d like to know what the adjustment should be for my situation and adjust from there, as required. Cheers. |
You could use those measurements if you had bought the master from VW 45 years ago. Now you just need to set the preload to 1.0mm to 1.5mm and drive it. Might need to cut the pushrod to get the proper clerance if it can not be taken up with adjustment. I had to do this on my 59 Single. |
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62DoKaGuy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 Posts: 1276 Location: Surprise, AZ
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Push Rod Vs. Master Cylinder Preload |
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ToolBox wrote: |
62DoKaGuy wrote: |
Reviving this thread to ask/confirm to what length a pushrod should be adjusted in an April ‘59 single cab. The catch is I installed this new, German single circuit master cylinder from Wolfsburg West: https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211611011JGR.
Bentley describes the adjustment for up to April ‘59 at 61-62mm of pushrod length and for May ‘59 onwards at 59-60mm. Which is correct? I need to adjust length from where it is regardless, as it has load on it, which is putting resistance at the wheels. They’ll turn but with some effort (yes, ebrake cable adjustment needs to be confirmed as well)
I’d like to know what the adjustment should be for my situation and adjust from there, as required. Cheers. |
You could use those measurements if you had bought the master from VW 45 years ago. Now you just need to set the preload to 1.0mm to 1.5mm and drive it. Might need to cut the pushrod to get the proper clerance if it can not be taken up with adjustment. I had to do this on my 59 Single. |
Oddly, these are the answers I figured haha. Thanks, both of you, for the simple answers. Cheers. _________________ ,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
EverettB wrote: |
...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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