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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6983 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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I’ve seen a lot of posts in this forum and have over heard a lot of people talking about how one should be able to grab their dipstick ( ) while the engine is at full operating temperature. Are you tough enough to grab and remove yours???
With the on set of summer I’ve noticed my oil temps hanging out around 220* on a more consistent basis. Ray has posted some good stuff lately about oil and the temps it can and cannot withstand. Thanks Ray! So, a few times last week I pulled over when the oil temp has hit 220* and took some readings with my IR gun. This is what I’ve found; oil temp gauge reading 220*, IR gun confirms the oil temp sender is at 220*. Sump plate at 175*, case (around the dipstick) 200*, oil exiting the case to my External cooler 200*, oil reentering the case from the external cooler 180*, oil filter 190*, the external cooler 160* and the dipstick at 180*. These temps are on my T1 2275cc with a T4 cooler upgrade, velocity ring, all German tin, external oil cooler with 180* T-stat and filter. This engine also has working OG flaps and T-Stat. So, I have all the proper cooling parts in place.
At 180* I am not tough enough to grab, pull out and hold my dipstick. The American burn institute says skin will get a 3rd degree burn at 155*. I have never been able to grab the dipstick on any T1 ACVW I’ve ever had at full operating temperature.
So, why do people tell other people that you should be able to grab and remove you dipstick at full operating temperature and if you can’t your engine is over heating? Maybe I’m just not man enough to hold a 180* piece of metal in my bare hand. Are you able too??? _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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Not really. At full operating temp, it hurts. On the other hand, if you can hold the dipstick, your oil is definitely not too hot...
[Waiting for someone to inevitably make a joke out of "I am not tough enough to grab, pull out and hold my dipstick"...] _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Jetfxr69 Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2018 Posts: 1293 Location: White mtns nh
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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Didnt realize that doing that was a toughness challenge. Ive been doing it since I was a kid, cause thats what the old man told me to do. I cut my teeth (10 yrs old) on a ‘62 corvette rebuild with the old man. I regularly do that to my bus after shutdown on a long run. As soon as I shut down I pull the stick and grab it, also noticing quick level, color, and smell. Then after about 5 mins, I recheck the level. I dont have any of those fancy gauges to look at. If it sounds good, I hammer it. When the bottom drops out, we swap in another engine and pound the shit out of that one. _________________ You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Zappa
‘77 westy Seamus
‘76 tintop Crusher
‘77 westy The Judge
‘72 tintop bastard westy Hudson |
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FLUX Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2010 Posts: 176 Location: Nashua, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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This is exactly what I've always thought. Ive never been able to hold my dipstick from my beetle or bus after a long run. Then I added GOOD gauges (Dakota digital) and find that my temp was running pretty much normal. That's also why anytime someone "thinks" their motor is running hot I highly advise them to add /check with a gauge before spending money on things they don't need. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16883 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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i literally grab shit out of the oven without mitts on. freaks my wife out.
i have zero feeling in my hands anymore. like mr deeds toe style
Link
_________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i literally grab shit out of the oven without mitts on. freaks my wife out.
i have zero feeling in my hands anymore. like mr deeds toe style
Link
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Question? Would you say that’s caused by years of self abuse or the CT frostbite? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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Perhaps a new “Feats of strength festibus” this year _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16883 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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aeromech wrote: |
Question? Would you say that’s caused by years of self abuse or the CT frostbite? |
years of abuse. air hammers, jack hammers, hammer drills you name it. kinda fun though. if i decide to throw a rod it feels like a stranger is doing it for me _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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Trades work knocks out your hands at about age 45. I have to look at everything I install, no more going by "feel". I recall saying ouch to the dipstick about 25 years ago, now...could not tell you one way or the other. If shit is smoking off the engine from the leaks, your too hot. _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1086 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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No bragging no examples no stories. just yes. Yes I can.
It's a good way to check your engine temp on the road if you have no oil temp gauge. |
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my59 Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003 Posts: 3793 Location: connecting the dots
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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The third day pot washing in a commercial kitchen was torture. After a week, not a problem. When I was promoted to cooking, carrying smoking hot pots and pans around was no problem. That was a long time ago, and friends who still cook for a living chuckle when they see me grab a dish rag to move a saute pan.
Hell, I thought that was why one keeps a rag in the car. _________________ my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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a-marshal Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2009 Posts: 270 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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I thought mine was pretty hot, I could grab it and hold it ... for a while.
I was cooking my heads, the rebuild got a save my bug temp sensor that would trigger on any longish run. _________________ -Ob. vehicle info....
1973 Westy w/ '74 1.8 liter / PDSI (type3?) carbs / 009 distributor / pertronix |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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It’s useless to compare across people since nerve health and pain tolerance vary so widely. If you test it when known to be good, you can use it as a gauge for overheating though.
I just a non contact thermal sensor , though. Good for radiators, sticking brakes, coolant hoses, too. _________________ .ssS! |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2079 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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I've always just spit on the case. Water boils at 212. If its popping on boiling, too hot. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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khalimadeath Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 768 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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Bulli Klinik wrote: |
I've always just spit on the case. Water boils at 212. If its popping on boiling, too hot. |
Spitting on your dipstick in an emergency can work but its not ideal..
SMH this thread is going to get locked up. _________________ The United States Constitution
(c) 1787. All Rights Reserved
1970 Bus Westfalia
1964 Kombi |
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nemobuscaptain Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 3874
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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richparker wrote: |
I’ve seen a lot of posts in this forum and have over heard a lot of people talking about how one should be able to grab their dipstick ( ) while the engine is at full operating temperature. Are you tough enough to grab and remove yours???
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as you already noted the dipstick is considerably cooler than the engine case, which is likely.cooler still than engine oil. 40° is you're observed difference between the dipstick and xase although I suspect it's cooler on the loop and that you might have just been reading the 10 behind the dipstick. the dipstick loop is definitely not unbearably hot on an engine that is running normally.
let's say you're running 175 to 180°, and there is even as you observed at minimum of 40° less on the dipstick, I can tell you I've sat on car seats that were 130°, too many times to count. it got 117 to 120° in Arizona in the summer.
In short yes I could pull the dipstick out of my engine. it wasn't comfortable. I prefer more of the test like can you touch it quickly without it being extremely painful and certianly not burned.
As for the 155 third degree burns, there is A LOT to this, ie 155 degree water is worse than 155 degree air. A longer exposure is worse of course. It is an "in the worst case scenario" ie old people with fragile onion skin etc.
you have all the stock engine cooling tin but you're also producing A LOT more heat from that bigger engine. even the 1600 dual port struggled with overheating in ways that the older 1200s 1300s and 1500s did not. More HP,.more heat.
Youre not going to like touching an 180 degree dipstick (equals 220 degree engine as you noticed). That is for sure. The engine was too hot.
An 180 degree engine with a 140 degree dipstick wouldnt kill you. _________________ Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6983 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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nemobuscaptain wrote: |
Youre not going to like touching an 180 degree dipstick (equals 220 degree engine as you noticed). That is for sure. The engine was too hot.
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So you’re saying 220* oil temp is too hot and it should always be at 180* regardless of the ambient temperature?
This is where I feel people are giving misinformation, like the dipstick theory. My last 2175, ran 180* damn near all the time and all the people on this site told me it was not getting hot enough and and it needed to run between 200-220*. The engine builder prefers the engine to run between 200-220*. Rays oil post was about oil being ok at these temps and starts to break down if run 250* for an extended period of time. Now you’re telling me 220* oil, which is producing a 180* dipstick temperature is too hot?
Yes, I have a large displacement engine. But, it does have additional systems in place to regulate the temperature. This engine does not run 220* all the time, when it’s cool out it runs cooler (180-200*). On a hot summer day, it runs warmer (200-220*). But I have yet to see temps north of 220*, as the systems I have in place are able to regulate the temperature.
At the end of page one, the majority of the people who have posted either state they can grab it because the have little feelings in their hands or they can grab it because if you can’t your engine is too hot. Hmmm…I still don’t believe it and will have to gather some more real world data. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Can you touch your dipstick when hot, how tough are you??? |
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I’ve never had a dipstick loop burn my fingers. Type1 or Type4 stock engines. I’ve felt the uncomfortable heat from the dipstick which reminds of walking across a street barefoot as a kid.
Wiping off the dipstick, sure that has given me a “Wow” but it’s so quick to wipe off it still doesn’t burn my fingers.
In my 1974 bug owners manual. It says to wait 5 minutes to check oil so the crankcase levels out. It doesn’t mention the possibility of burns if you pull the dipstick at any timeframe. Seems like many gas station attendants back in the day (When it was common practice to check oil during fill ups) would have some scars. I doubt all of them used a rag to pull the dipstick
In my opinion. I believe the loop and the metal used in the dipstick was designed to prevent people from scolding themselves. Think of cookware with “Stay Cool handles” This pan pictured, is aluminum, cladded/laminated in Stainless steel. The aluminum is the what makes the pan react to heat up and down. The stainless steel handle attached to the pan doesn’t get hot enough to scold a person by design from the stove top because of the shape and metal used. However you put that pan in an oven at say 375* for 20 minutes. The handle will burn you good because the radiant heat from the oven beating down on the handle. So in VW terms. Could a really hot dipstick not only heat up from the crank case but maybe from a hot engine compartment (Like an oven) as well? Just spit balling an idea. Ray will be along with real scientific information soon
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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