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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Here's what I found tonight. The first pic was taken right when I took the top of the carb off. The second was taken after I had gotten the base of the carb unbolted and everything detached from the carb and the top was off the whole time (gas shouldn't be leaking). The third is trying to show how wet the gasket was. The fourth and fifth are of me holding the float in hot water.
Let me know what everyone thinks.
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tisius Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011 Posts: 1570 Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:13 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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gasket should not be wet, You know know that this is ( at least one of?) the area (the carb) where you will find the problem. Now it comes down to systematic deduction in search for leaks at the carb.
Start at the connection fuel line to carb and work your way through would be my advice. _________________ drive it like you just robbed the bank
you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
.... if it ain't dutch, it ain't much! |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Not sure I have all the facts, but here's a theory. Looking at how low the fuel level is after you first took the top off, I wonder if the electromechanical shut off valve is stuck open, allowing fuel to drain out.
In this diagram you can see a siphon path from the bowl through the E/M valve, If your jet was stuck open it may drain down to that level. This is about where your first pic shows the level.
More images here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=594790
How long had it been since it was running at the time you took that pic?
Also, if that valve gets stuck closed, it won't idle. Maybe you have a sticky E/M valve?
This is a guess, since I am not familiar with those carbs.
Last edited by KTPhil on Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Now it comes down to systematic deduction in search for leaks at the carb. |
I blew into where the fuel line connected to the carb. Air went through the valve when it was open and stopped as soon as I closed it.
I then filled the bowl with gas and let it drain out until there was no excess draining. I put the float into the bowl with the same level of gas and then saw how much drained out from the weight of the float raising the fuel level.
From the amount of gas I left in the bowl last night and the amount of gas still in this morning, I'd say the carb itself isn't leaking. There is a little bit gone, but I'd say that could be due to evaporation. |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Quote: |
Not sure I have all the facts, but here's a theory. Looking at how low the fuel level is after you first took the top off, I wonder if the electromechanical shut off valve is stuck open, allowing fuel to drain out.
In this diagram you can see a siphon path from the bowl through the E/M valve, If your jet was stuck open it may drain down to that level. This is about there your first pic shows the level.
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I think the bowl is on the other side of the EM valve. And when I look at mine the EM valve sits below the bottom of the bowl meaning the bowl would be empty. It could be an option, but right now I'm thinking the float may be too heavy. |
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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your fuel pressure is too high. It's a known thing with those pumps. You can stack gaskets, you can sheave off some of the pushrod, but the preferred fix is to replace the diaphragm spring |
Do you mean out of the box it is too high? I found that out, but I recently was able to get it down very close to what stock was. When the pressure was high the car would die at idle because the carb was getting flooded. It no longer has that issue with the pressure fixed. |
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Here are pictures showing the max height of the fuel with and without the float in.
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flyboy161 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009 Posts: 2091 Location: Perry, GA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Hey, no offense, but you're getting wrapped up in some details here. You say your driveway is a slight incline up, right? So tilt the carb full of fuel the same as your driveway and see if it leaks fuel on the bench. Make sure your float is installed and the bowl is at 5cm or whatever you got there. If you have to put the top on it, do it.
The idle cutoff jet is below the bowl but look at the diagram above. The path of the fuel actually leaves the bottom of the bowl through the main jet and travels up to the two jets on the passenger side of the carb. From there it drains down to the idle cutoff jet. That is supposed to stop what's happening to you. Is it functioning? Have removed it and plugged it in to see if it retracts with power and extends when off? If it is non functional fuel will drain out of the bowl and get in your cylinders when the back end of the car is downhill.
The action is known as siphoning and it will pull every bit of fuel out of your carb and fuel lines while the car sits there _________________ My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879
The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776
My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483 |
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Hey, no offense, but you're getting wrapped up in some details here |
No thank you. That's one of the reasons I posted here and why I'm posting as many pictures as possible. I want to make sure I'm not skipping over anything.
I'm going to weigh the float today and I will also try both suggestions today as well |
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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The float seems to be about the right weight of 10.5 grams. The only scale I have access to is in ounces and a mechanical scale. |
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Have removed it and plugged it in to see if it retracts with power and extends when off? |
Just got finish testing that out. The valve did nothing with the power on or when the power was turned off. I checked the wire to make sure there was power to it, and it had about 12.7 volts.
It looks like I'll be ordering a new valve. Thank you.
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I wonder if the electromechanical shut off valve is stuck open, allowing fuel to drain out. |
The valve didn't even work. Thanks for the advice. |
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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flyboy161 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009 Posts: 2091 Location: Perry, GA
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Yes, yours is the plunger type like Phil says. |
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Yours is just an on-off passageway blocker. |
Thank you and thank you. I'll do the tilt check in the morning. Float in lid on bowl full and see what happens. |
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thomas. Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010 Posts: 1288 Location: South West (Pa.)
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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You can eliminate the cut off valve by plugging it up like I did a few years ago or you can cut off the plunger and reuse your cut off valve. There's a lot written in the search about this. I've since eliminated the horizontal spring.
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PaytonD21 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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So after tilting the carb to the angle of where I park the carb didn't leak. I even set it on the intake to make sure the level was correct and no leaking. I had to tilt it at a pretty good angle for gas to leak. Is that normal? |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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I'd replace the E/M plunger valve and only then see what happens. It should click and actuate, so if it doesn't, all bets are off for carb behavior. Looks like about $20 and you may be home free. |
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LancA2C Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2021 Posts: 1 Location: British Columbia
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Not sure if I'm in the right place.
I've got a '71 Westie that was sitting in the bush for 25 yrs. It's now up and running , the problem I'm having is fuel in the crank case. After installing a new
stock carb. , it's been driven about 50 miles. My feeling is that the diaphragm in the pump is the source.
Bentley claims you can't access the diaphragm in these pumps so they have to be replaced. My question is : is there a procedure to bench test the pump to determine if that is the problem? I've drained the oil and puled the pump It is the original and it would be nice to keep it in service.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
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