Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 16, 17, 18  Next
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ceckert64
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1311
Location: Midland, Michigan
Ceckert64 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies Clatter! I need to stop by the engine shop soon, this engine is on the back burner for now. I’m finishing up my bug to sell and that currently has priority. But I did score some super solid bus heater boxes for $40 at a VW show along with some real Weber 44 IDFs that came off a running Baja bug for $220. Will the 44s be too big for a 1700? My local VW shop has some of the Hall effect distributors, but for water cooled. Could I just rob the internals and swap them?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Don” 1965 Factory sunroof parts beetle-SOLD
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper + 1700cc Type4 engine rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Chickensoup
Samba Member


Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 4057
Location: Good Hope, Ga
Chickensoup is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

i would run a tuned header and use a diesel heater so your bus sounds like a jet/hotel room window AC Wink

although a tuned merge header would absolutely make more power and be more efficient, idk how well those heaterboxes flow and if it would be worth it with your carb, cam, and head combo.
_________________
#your_feelings_dont_really_matter
.................................................................................................
'65 Tourist Delivery Beetle
'05 passat TDI wagen, egr delete, tuned, pushing 300k
-Aiden
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clatter
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 5730
Location: Santa Cruz
Clatter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Major, Major score on both accounts! Shocked Shocked

Those heaters are just the ticket.
Get the Empi t-bird copy..

You'll likely need to pop for small venturies for those carbs.
What size valves did you end up with, again?
42 x 36? Then some 34 vents should be ideal.
IDF 44s usually have 36s, and you might just try those and see how they work.
If you have smaller valves.. Then that means smaller vents..


I still tell ya you should find a 2.0 crank/rod assembly somewhere...! Wink
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Chickensoup
Samba Member


Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 4057
Location: Good Hope, Ga
Chickensoup is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Major, Major score on both accounts! Shocked

I still tell ya you should find a 2.0 crank/rod assembly somewhere...! Wink


Yes. More displacement to work better with those carbs. That And the 2.0 rotating assembly is stronger right?
_________________
#your_feelings_dont_really_matter
.................................................................................................
'65 Tourist Delivery Beetle
'05 passat TDI wagen, egr delete, tuned, pushing 300k
-Aiden
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19015
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Chickensoup wrote:
Clatter wrote:
Major, Major score on both accounts! Shocked

I still tell ya you should find a 2.0 crank/rod assembly somewhere...! Wink


Yes. More displacement to work better with those carbs. That And the 2.0 rotating assembly is stronger right?


No....actually weaker.

The type 4 2.0 crank....is the identical forging as the 1.7/1.8.....but.....its ground "offset" . It has a 5mm smaller rod journal to get that extra 5mm of stroke.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Chickensoup
Samba Member


Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 4057
Location: Good Hope, Ga
Chickensoup is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

then i see no reason he cant have his current crank ground offset for the 2.0 throw. just need the 2.0 rods.
_________________
#your_feelings_dont_really_matter
.................................................................................................
'65 Tourist Delivery Beetle
'05 passat TDI wagen, egr delete, tuned, pushing 300k
-Aiden
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19015
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Chickensoup wrote:
then i see no reason he cant have his current crank ground offset for the 2.0 throw. just need the 2.0 rods.


I don't see why not....I don't knw if that is anything out if the ordinary for a crank grinder. I would say just be sure to have the journals hardened or nitrided.

At that rate....I am betting you can find a good 71mm/2.0L crankshaft out there ready to go for less effort and $. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clatter
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 5730
Location: Santa Cruz
Clatter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Ya,
If you have access to some junk like our esteemed OP here,
The chances of finding a 2.0 crank/rods is pretty good.

Usually try to use a 1.7 for the case/heads/rockers/exhaust/tin,
And a 2.0 for the crank, rods and P&L.
Early cases and heads are higher quality and less likely to be roached.
Late crank and rods is a 'free' stroker setup.
The 1.7/1.8 is a significantly stronger crank, mostly due to more overlap from the larger rod journals,
But in a bus, it will never rev enough to make a difference.
Pushing a bus, stroke helps.


Yes,
You could take and have a 1.7/1.8 crank offset ground.
That's basically what the factory did.
But,
Dag,
Lot of cake to pack and ship it to DPR or someplace qualified.
Especially for something to be found lying in the back of a car or in a pile of motors or something at the junkyard.


The 2.0 takes a different piston (pin height) than the 1.7/1.8,
But you're usually going to be replacing P&L anyways..

A set of 1.7 heads on a 2.0 bottom end with 94 bus dished pistons makes for a nice little bump in compression, and a bit bigger valves, just right for a bus motor with a mild cam.
Same setup as the 'Cheap Junk' motor build in my sig..

If you have access to multiple core motors as we do,
It makes good sense to just pick the ones you want before starting the build.
As the 'wrong' parts will cost the same to do as the 'right' ones anyways.

Right?

Laughing
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ceckert64
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1311
Location: Midland, Michigan
Ceckert64 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

They were definitely a score! The Weber’s are Italian ones, they are made in Bologna Italy, a great price! Thank you for the vent information. I feel very stupide for this but the guy had the specs written down for the carbs and I didn’t get a picture of the specs and don’t have the guy’s contact information Mad

I Haven’t settled on any valves yet but I will probably do 42x36 for them.

2 liter or not to 2 liter, tis the question Laughing it’s tempting, but I have already bought NOS 1.7L pistons with rings and pins. A 1.7L crank that may not even need machining. And cylinders that may just need a hone. I will probably stay 1.7 but I could still be convinced though. Do you have to open up the case for the 2L cylinders? But I can definitely find a good 2L crank at the junkyard.

I will start putting a list of things to order together. I think it will do the empi T-bird copy, I’m thinking web 86 cam (would something else be better?) I need a double thrust cam bearing kit, possibly an engine gasket kit, I might actually have one already, look for electronic ignition parts.
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Don” 1965 Factory sunroof parts beetle-SOLD
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper + 1700cc Type4 engine rebuild


Last edited by Ceckert64 on Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
calvinater
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 2700
Location: 802
calvinater is online now 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Last i heard , Bologna is in Italy.
_________________
"War...War Never Changes"

"three is the magic number"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ceckert64
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1311
Location: Midland, Michigan
Ceckert64 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

calvinater wrote:
Last i heard , Bologna is in Italy.

Embarassed I think I need to take Geography again Laughing Thanks for pointing that out, I fixed it now
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Don” 1965 Factory sunroof parts beetle-SOLD
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper + 1700cc Type4 engine rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67rustavenger
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 6276
Location: Hillsboro, Or.
67rustavenger is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Ceckert64 wrote:
calvinater wrote:
Last i heard , Bologna is in Italy.

Embarassed I think I need to take Geography again Laughing Thanks for pointing that out, I fixed it now

I thought that you graduated this year.
If so. You need to return your diploma! Lol
_________________
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ceckert64
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1311
Location: Midland, Michigan
Ceckert64 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
Ceckert64 wrote:
calvinater wrote:
Last i heard , Bologna is in Italy.

Embarassed I think I need to take Geography again Laughing Thanks for pointing that out, I fixed it now

I thought that you graduated this year.
If so. You need to return your diploma! Lol

Close, One more year, class of 2022! Somehow I’m at the top of my class Laughing I did learn in my engineering class this year how to degree a cam Very Happy
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Don” 1965 Factory sunroof parts beetle-SOLD
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper + 1700cc Type4 engine rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19015
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

calvinater wrote:
Last i heard , Bologna is in Italy.



But...I thought Bologna was an Island in the archipelago of Oscar Meyer....or maybe it was the straights of Hormel.....so confusing....

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67rustavenger
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 6276
Location: Hillsboro, Or.
67rustavenger is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Ceckert64 wrote:
67rustavenger wrote:
Ceckert64 wrote:
calvinater wrote:
Last i heard , Bologna is in Italy.

Embarassed I think I need to take Geography again Laughing Thanks for pointing that out, I fixed it now

I thought that you graduated this year.
If so. You need to return your diploma! Lol

Close, One more year, class of 2022! Somehow I’m at the top of my class Laughing I did learn in my engineering class this year how to degree a cam Very Happy

Ah! Then you are absolved of your geography sin.

You'll do well in life if you follow that engineering education through college.
I work with young bright engineers everyday. Most of them are very intelligent recent college grads. I'm glad to have these folks around.

Carry on!
_________________
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
orwell84
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 1989
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
orwell84 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Jeez...those heater boxes. Nice score. I have been fiddly welding a set of heater boxes for ages.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ceckert64
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1311
Location: Midland, Michigan
Ceckert64 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Yesterday I got some more scores at the junkyard. I got a 2L crank and rods that seem to be in good shape, might not even need machining. I got an OG VW Hall effect distributor out of a wasser boxer engine. I got a bunch of carburetors and some other parts. One is an almost new coil that I believe is a resistance style for the Hall effect distributor. And a good T1 dual port head
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Don” 1965 Factory sunroof parts beetle-SOLD
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper + 1700cc Type4 engine rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Chickensoup
Samba Member


Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 4057
Location: Good Hope, Ga
Chickensoup is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

chambers look sand blasted.

Oh and thanks for picking up the carbs!
_________________
#your_feelings_dont_really_matter
.................................................................................................
'65 Tourist Delivery Beetle
'05 passat TDI wagen, egr delete, tuned, pushing 300k
-Aiden
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ceckert64
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1311
Location: Midland, Michigan
Ceckert64 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

I looked at the crank today, no scoring on it. But someone put two connecting rods backwards Shocked It’s definitely been rebuilt, I will check tomorrow to see if the crank is still standard or been machined. But I think the main bearings may have had STD on them… I will also check run-out on it. I think I’m going to go 2L or more. Got to have something that suits the carbs well, so I guess I have to go a little bigger Laughing
Notice all numbers on top
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Don” 1965 Factory sunroof parts beetle-SOLD
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper + 1700cc Type4 engine rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ceckert64
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1311
Location: Midland, Michigan
Ceckert64 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4, 1700cc engine rebuild for a bus, what to do, suggestions Reply with quote

Has anyone used this piston and cylinder set before? https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=948299
The seller has great reviews but the price is amazing and just want to know if anyone knows the quality

TIA Aiden
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Don” 1965 Factory sunroof parts beetle-SOLD
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper + 1700cc Type4 engine rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 16, 17, 18  Next
Jump to:
Page 17 of 18

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB