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metropoj
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Dave, thanks so much in advance to documenting what you are doing and those with the knowledge for posting along the ride.
If I missed it, where did you mount your Drier ? Mine was Drivers Side rear fender well.
I need to do pretty well the same as your are doing, save for the burnt wiring.
Donor:
I picked up a 90 GL 7 passenger with auto and rear air. I am planning to put the auto and air into my 4 speed, non A/C Westy with TiiCo install. I may switch one day to my 1.8T on the floor but we'll see.
The system had very little pressure in it and would not run but I was encouraged that the system held some pressure, it appears to be all original R12 from what I can tell.
Anyways, thanks again, I've been pretty intimidated during the disassembly and taking a ton of pics etc. as I gut the van and wondered about all the things to replace / upgrade, read TK's Retek thread and getting immersed in all things Auto and Rear A/C. I'm confident it will handle the A/C use I am prepared to throw at it.
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy. |
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metropoj
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Oh I should add that the idea of doing the Smallcar setup under the dash is also not off the table yet.
I like the idea of using what I have to install in the rear and use it as is, but need to mod all my non AC cabinets to accept the complete unit and wiring ...
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Well.......
I've had just about enough of Pennsylvania's heat and humidity for 2021!
It is time to get back to this A/C system rebuild.
My two new A/C hoses from and to the Condenser have been taped closed and shoved in the cavity behind the Left Tail Light for months and well over 6,000 miles!
Installing the compressor, wiring it and the belt install are mere child's play.
The real time involved work is with the Evaporator and burned wiring in the Left Pillar.
I haven't yet installed the receiver/drier for once you pop the factory seal the count down clock starts ticking before it is no longer good. Especially in the high humidity we have right now.
Even though I'm using the older <86 style rec/drier I will be mounting it in the newer location in the L/R wheel opening.
I'll be taking photos as I progress with opening the rear plastic Evaporator assembly and repairing the drain tray the PO utterly destroyed during removal after the fire.
I have "help" today for we are watching my daughter's Golden Retriever and Boston Terrier all week.
The Golden is great, easy going, sleeps a lot, obedient .......
but that Boston Terrier? A very sweet dog, Just way too small, way too much energy and way too quick for me!
She will make me old quickly!
My house is small for one Golden..... add a 2nd Golden and then a 3rd ball of energy? Oh My!
Dave
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djkeev
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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| Terrier= Terrorier. Jack Russel, Scottish Highland, Wheaton, makes no difference.................IMHO |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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So, I've got a pile of photos to upload on disassembling the Evaporator assembly.
It is WAY DIFFERENT than a Westy Evaporator.
They have sealed the Evaporator into a flimsy plastic box.
There are many screws to remove and in my case, much sticky to overcome!
I sadly am not the first one in. In 2019 someone put their initials and a date.
What they did was nothing to be proud of!
It was most likely after the fire doing electrical repairs. They broke both drain tubes and used an ultra sticky sealer everywhere!
It was a lot of gentle prying and careful use of a several thin flexible putty knives.
Now, Getting the broken drain tray out, without breaking it, for repairs was an adventure all unto itself!
I got both blower fans out, lubricated the shafts and hot wired them to work the lubrication in.
I also plugged them in and checked each resistor (there is one for each fan motor) for multiple speeds as designed.
It all worked well, I feared they would be locked up which would explain the blower relay literally burning up.
Unless the 2019 repair installed "new" fans? They had been removed ..... judging by the missing hardware.
My current frustration is that I cannot find my drain hoses that have the broken drain output piece and the duck bill valves on them! Grrrrrrr!
Anyway, it is the early afternoon of July 4th, enough farting around on my A/C!
Dave
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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At least it was cooler for a few days.
I have all the same issues with the evaporator housing and then some. I had removed the side support columns as I needed the cargo width. The back plastic cap nuts which hold that portion of the housing began to shed and with a wicked pothole, the entire mess came crashing down. I hate the obstructed rear hatch window view, so I'm going to salvage some of the housing which is now cracked in a number of pieces and custom make the rest out of fiberglass. It will go about two and a half inches higher with a roof lump to be as low as possible.
The blowers are 6" high, the evaporator unit is 6" high, but it seems it was canted so the air saw a greater height? The housing itself has a vertical height of 8". Don't know why they did this, as I would assume that the air molecules and their buddies would rather take the shorter way through at the tips of the diamond rather than the long route through the middle and thus in effect having less exposure to the cold evaporator metal fins. Is there any reason the unit needs to be canted? Or did I get this wrong and in fact it sits flat. The curved end mounts may be confusing me. This would really help with the roof lump.
Good luck on sorting yours out. When I've had broken tube fittings like your condensate pan, I would just fab up the broken part with fiberglass cloth and epoxy. Never had a subsequent failure. Luckily, my drain hoses are still in place in the body so just need to reconnect, well maybe not, as they look broken too and poorly sealed.
Also I notice the drain is not flush with the bottom meaning some standing water will collect which will either get evaporated as moisture into the car or sit there perhaps inviting corrosion. I also note the evaporator unit sits up on an "island" so it's not in the water, but it sags in the middle and might hold moisture. I may just make a whole new tray out of fiberglass with flush drains built right in too.
Another postor on this topic said on high speed the fans create a hurricane and thus there is no need for the ductwork suspended from the ceiling. I agree so all I will do is fashion a new front with two vents in front of the blower discharge. Also note the extra inch over the blowers which doesn't seem to do anything.
None of this will happen this summer, so anxiously awaiting your results as good information to tuck away when it does get started.
Duncan |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Well, my evaporator housing is on my bench.
Removing it was simple though, support it, remove the two rear side panels and remove the three bolts on either side.
Slowly liwer it until you can deal with the two drain hoses that come out the sides.
Mine were broken at the drain tray but I'm guessing it would be best to pull them into the Van.
Personally I'd cut them. They are so old and stiff that new ones are a good idea anyway.
The backside is covered by a large plastic cover.
I didn't count the screws but there are a LOT of 7mm hex head "sheet metal" screws.
Remove them all, look under the rubber insulation along the edges, I had one covered by the rubber, I also had one embedded in the black "goo" around the expansion valve.
Once the screws are out there is nothing else holding the black cover on.
I used flexible 1” wide putty knives and worked them into the various joining cracks and crevices.
Eventually with some disconcerting "cracking noises" it began to separate.
The expansion valve side was a bit stubborn, I used my putty knife and carefully cut through the black tar cork covering. Eventually it began to let go.....
There is a black plastic support below the expansion valve, sliding my putty knife behind that plastic was a key to getting the black cover off. That plastic support stays with the evaporator housing......
And here is the Evaporator!
It is mounted with six 7mm screws. Three on each end of the evaporator....
The Evaporator should lift right out....... but didn't.
There is a wire tie embedded in the black tar cork.
Carefully expose it and cut the tie.
And here you have it, one Evaporator Coil assembly!
Dave
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Now normally you would stop here but I have two problems.
#1 my drain pan has the drain nozzles broken off
And
#2 my Van caught in fire when the Fan relay overheated and melted.
For a relay to overheat like that something went bad wrong!
A dead short or the fan motor seized up.
I need to pull both the drain pan and the blower motors.
Here is a view of the drain pan next to the blower motors......
My broken drain tube nipples.....
Here are the blower fans and speed resistors......
How to get the drain tray out?
It will be easier to pull the blower motors without the drain tray in place.
But if you try to move it, it ain't budging!
After making sure it is indeed a separate piece and seeing no reason why they would glue the tray in place, I turned to my trusty putty knives and called in their big 3” wide brother as well.
I wiggled one 1” putty knife under the drain tray but it was hard. The angle was all wrong!
If I removed the intake screen it would be much better!
Hmmmm.....
The intake screen just slides into a metal channel, I can pull that screen right out!
That worked great!
At a much better angle near the center I slid a 1” knife as deep as it could go in.
I inserted a 2nd one an inch away and then slid the 3” knife on top of the two 1” knives.
I repeated this gently prying as I went along until I had freed the drain tray!
Notice the one putty knife has a bronze blade? I LOVE this knife!
It is stiffer than many and has a completely different working property.
It was my Dad's, I remember him having it back in the 1960’s.
My, how the flash lit up my ratchet and 13mm socket!
The blower motors are each held in with on 8mm bolt and nut (13mm wrenches).
There should be a large washer on each side under the bolt head and nut squeezing a rubber grommet.
I was missing the washer under both nuts. The nuts were only finger tight as well which tells me that somebody had been here before me.
Unplug the fan power supply
Use the putty knife to free the blower motor housing and convince it to move
To remove the motor it is a tight rolling motion.
Pull out the top, but it only comes part way before binding.
Work you fingers under the motor and pull the bottom out at the same time and somehow it magically pops out without breaking anything!
Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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you're lucky.
i've been looking for almost a year for a rear a/c unit for my 84 westy. they just don't exist it seems. may have to go a different route
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Here is one of the blower motors removed from the assembly.
Here you can better see how the drain tray is broken in the nipple areas ....
The part number of the drain tray ......
The one end of the motor shaft is quite easy to lubricate, it is readily accessible with no cover whatsoever.......
The other end of the shaft is behind the fan blade and the fan blade is encased in a housing.
Looking at it the end of the housing comes off, it is held together by several clips.
To separate the halves it seems ti be just a matter of depressing the rab and pulling it apart.
That turned out to be true but it was less than easy. By using a putty knife and a small (large jewelers) flat blade screw driver I was able to remove the cover.....
Once I had it apart I hoped I could get the fan cage off without damage. The shaft was rusty so I held the fan cage and gave the armature shaft a few quick raps with a hammer. Rust fell off but no movement.
Well, I'm going to lubricate the shaft behind that cage but I'm not going to ruin the cage to do it!
I noticed the end of the cage by the shaft is marked with letters evenly spaced around and 180° opposite from each other.
I determined if I drill a hole I could get oil onto the shaft. I started with a 1/16” then a 1/8” and finished with a 1/4” hole.
In the hole you can see the shaft and motor housing.
Well, one hole will throw the cage off balance, a second one at 180° will prevent that!
So......... two holes!
It was an easy task to dribble oil on the shaft and let it seep down into the bushing.
I turned the cage by hand to work in the oil.
I turned the motor over and oiled the easily accessed bushing.
To work the oil in better and to test the motir I got my jump pack and hotwired the fan, it lurched to life and spun at high speed with a vengeance!
I reassembled the fan and determined that there was no need to take apart the other one.
I simply drilled two holes, oiled and hot wired it.
Again, a fine working fan.
There are little rubber "feet" on both fans .....
While they present no problems coming apart, sluding across the rubber to go in proved to be another story.
I used two putty knives under the feet and they slid on the metal blades. It worked quite well!
Once both fans were installed and plugged back in I hot wired the harness feed to check each speed. Both fans operated at multiple speeds as they should....
Here is the VW H style expansion valve. The label is gone but it is dated for a leak test in 1989, which makes sense for a 1990 Van.
I removed the rotted foam covering. It crumbled to dust when touched. The coil fins are also packed with the foam and dirt severely limiting air flow through the coil.....
I now need to remove the expansion valve and flush out the evaporator with an A/C system liquid flush.
Dave
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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| When valves and hose connections are broken apart, is there any special protection needed for the now open orifice? |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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I've been reluctant to break any of the fittings even though the A/C is non functional, but would love to gains some camping gear stowage space until I get around to the full Monte nest year. Only the evaporator is there: the blowers are in a safe place...........where I actually know they are. Hope your missing gear turns up soon.
If I take it out, I can raise the evaporator platform even more and get an unobstructed view out the rear hatch window. Will make a temp hinge down speaker/boat bulkhead for access. Thanks for the incentive, but will have to wait as a trip is planed to Maine for over the coming weekend.
Duncan |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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This morning I salvaged the good parts from the 1989 drain tubes.
These old tubes were like rigid PVC pipe! Very hard and unyielding.
Getting the duck bill valve out was quite simple.
I simply used a long screw driver and worked the soft rubber valve loose from the pipe. I just inserted it between the valve and the pipe and massaged it around until it came loose ……
Getting the hard plastic nipple out was a bit of a challenge. It seems as if they had been glued onto the hose!
I had to use my utility knife and carefully whittle away the hard hose until I got to the nipple. I the worked my way around the nipple until it reluctantly came loose, and it took a bit of force.
NO WAY WOULD YOU EVER PULL THESE OFF THE DRAIN PAN when dropping the evaporator assembly! Don’t even try, you’ll just break the nipples.
And here are the salvaged bits…….
A close up of the duck bill part number
Dave
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djkeev
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