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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:54 pm Post subject: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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So what do you do when your 15-year-old son gets bitten by the Baja Bug bug? Do you try to talk sense into him or fan the Baja flame?
To gain his Mom's approval, he wrote an essay on why a Baja bug project would be a positive learning activity.
I think I was more surprised than he was when she signed off on the idea.
So last summer, we looked at several junker beetles to convert to baja. We also looked at a few cosmetic Bajas (Bajas with fiberglass body kits and minimal mechanical or structural upgrades).
After considering cars in other states, we ended up buying a local one that we had passed over early on. It had a mix of good and goofy:
Good
-Fiberglass body kit was in good shape
-Oher than marginal pans and a rusty driver's door, not much rust
-A nice running 1776 and an 091 Trans
Goofy:
-Solid-mount transmission mount welded-in crooked
-Empi coilovers + 100 lbs of sandbags in the trunk
Also, it ran, and, depending on one's standards, could be called roadworthy. It seemed like we could get it sorted in time to rallycross it that summer.
It definitely needed lots of love, but the seller kept dropping the price. He wanted to unload it, but I think he also identified with my son's love for bugs; the seller's first car was a bug.
It was fun watching my boy try to contain his excitement when he bought it. A wad of cash and a learner's permit are remarkable catalysts. He said it was the happiest day of his life.
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calvinater Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 3331 Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 2:43 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Good luck , have fun , and make some good memories for both of you. _________________ "Albatross"! |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 5:46 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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From my side of the computer screen it looks like a really good start.... The con's you mentioned are just a little speed bump which can be fixed in a few days work.... Good project for father and son bond... One thing I would change though is exhaust, I would turn it down so if you get caught in rain it does not funnel water into engine...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Dark Earth Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015 Posts: 1054
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Did some 1969 bugs come without a locking gas door ? I'm just curious. _________________ My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8700 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Dark Earth wrote: |
Did some 1969 bugs come without a locking gas door ? I'm just curious. |
1968 models had the finger pull. 1969 models went to the locking door.
I believe in 1973 model they then went back to a finger pull door. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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Dark Earth Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015 Posts: 1054
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:56 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Q-Dog wrote: |
Dark Earth wrote: |
Did some 1969 bugs come without a locking gas door ? I'm just curious. |
1968 models had the finger pull. 1969 models went to the locking door.
I believe in 1973 model they then went back to a finger pull door. |
Thanks Q-Dog ! _________________ My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Thanks for the encouragement. And yes, I should state that the pan is titled as a 69, but the body seems to be a 68.
Still getting y'all up to speed on the project:
We live in Bellingham, Washington. Every summer, https://www.nwrallyassociation.com/ hosts Rallycrss Fest at https://dirtfish.com/, in Snoqualmie, WA, a couple of hours south of us. They offer a one-day novice class where volunteer instructors teach basic skills, then you get to compete in the races over the weekend. Key for us-- you only need a learner's permit to race and you can enter multiple drivers per car.
After we got the bug home and drove it a few times, we made a punch list and got to sorting. Our priorities were based on passing tech inspection for the class. We:
-Sorted and cleaned up the critical wiring. It was impressively messed up and the right turn signal was acting as an engine kill swtich.
-Replaced a wheel bearing, ball joint, and tightened loose frame head bolts.
-After adjusting the steering box several times, we replaced it. Got the front end aligned.
- Adjusted valves, changed the oil.
-Cleaned and lubricated the rear caliper sliders
-Tightened a lot of loose bolts and installed a lot of missing bolts.
-Cut magnetic sheet for sticker numbers
And there was a lot we didn't fix. We flat-towed it to the race and passed tech inspection with a few "Next time" notes from the inspectors.
My son had a ball during the class. I'd never driven a bug offroad and I found the rear-engine and funky suspension challenging. The ball joint beam had a couple of avis style adjusters adjusted to max height, 3" raised spindles, plus the Empi coilovers. The suspension was overly stiff. Lowering the front end via the adjusters resulted in rubbing tires. Even with all 100lbs of sandbags, we had significant understeer.
Surprisingly, we kept it both on the course during the novice sessions and we didn't break anything. We definitely killed a few cones.
In the afternoon session of race day, our clutch pedal started going to the floor. It had a Wilwood clutch slave cylinder with a threaded rod and thin lock nuts for adjustment. They were loosening between runs. Luckily, I had spare metric hardware, but found the Wilwood components were SAE. So, between races, we'd take turns crawling under the car rear and adjusting the throw while in line in the staging area.
In the afternoon, on our second to last run, we went out with a bang. We cracked an outer CV joint and they towed us off the course. The inner CV joints were Bus joints and the outers were bug joints. Our rear torsion bars were cranked so that the beetle CVs were at their angular limit while at rest. We pulled the CV axle and towed the bug home, happy to have cheated fate.
Both the novice class and the racing were a hoot. The gang at NWRally Association and Dirtfish were knowledgeable and welcoming to newcomers. We couldn't have asked for a better weekend of cheap racing!
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12858 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Your instructors were probably not experienced with the dynamics of a low power, rear engined vehicle. Lose the extra weight in the front, lose the front sway bar, & the next time that you are in the loose stuff, when the car starts to push, twitch the steering a bit tighter & lift on the throttle to initiate oversteer (this not only transfers weight to the front tires, but it also breaks traction in the rear.) & then start counter steering while powering out (throttling out helps the rear to start clawing for traction & then causes the front to push again.). _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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I’ve got bilstein shocks on front.
I’ve had the B46-0493 shocks with 265/70 valving.
But now have bilstein 7100 with 180/75.
265 is too stiff.
Enjoy. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Mikedrevguy wrote: |
I’ve got bilstein shocks on front.
I’ve had the B46-0493 shocks with 265/70 valving.
But now have bilstein 7100 with 180/75.
265 is too stiff.
Enjoy. |
Thanks, Mike, is that is that with a stock travel Balljoint front end? |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:42 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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We decided to run the NWRA Dirtcross in Bellingham, WA in September, then tear the bug down in the Winter. So, we:
-Removed the Empi coilovers. We hadn't determined our long term plan for suspension, so we installed OE Boge shocks as our baseline.
-Straightened the bent steering shaft
-Replaced the worn steering box
-Replaced the pitman arm (worn splines) with a good used one.
-Installed washers between the pitman arm and the steering box.
The dirtcross is a day and night event. My buddy who has an EV baja bug and his kids came up the night before and helped us get the auxiliary lights working.
Unfortunately, my son had hurt his back a few days prior and was too sore to drive. So, he volunteered and took some great photos and video.
The dirtcross was a ton of fun. The softer suspension helped the car handle the bumps much better.
Midway through an afternoon run, the front end spontaneously adjusted itself. One of the avis style adjusters had slipped and lowered the car. Back in the pits, we jacked it up and attempted to raise it, but the teeth were damaged and wouldn't hold. So, I just ran with a lower front end. I still had plenty of clearance with the raised spindles.
I ended the evening with a more exciting mechanical catastrophe. Rounding a corner, one of the rear stainless brake hoses (which was routed below the trailing arm) probably hit a rock or something and broke off. The master cylinder was an aftermarket single circuit, so I lost all braking. I couldn't make the corner, so I pitched it off the track into the blackberry bushes.
I was surprised that the lightweight nerf bar that took the impact protected the body and only bent a little. I lucked out.
Turns out dual circuit master cylinders are a novel idea.
I wonder how many street legal bugs and manxs on the street are running single circuit brakes?
My son made this compilation video that has footage from both Dirtfish and Hannegan (Bellingham). Note my buddy's quiet EV bug:
Link
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12858 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:44 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Great video. I’m glad y’all are having fun & making memories. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
Great video. I’m glad y’all are having fun & making memories. |
Thanks, TDCTDI,
We were recently looking at your posting showing how you installed front Beam Adjusters. We appreciate all the photos! I take it you are a TDI fan? |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Our vision for the build is still evolving, but we had decided on a few things:
-Full Cage--We want to install a full cage that's not terribly awkward for the driver and passenger to climb in and out of. My son wants to have a rear seat that could fit two adults, but I doubt we can make the cage accommodate that. If anyone has successfully pulled this off, please let us know how you did it.
-Power--We really wanted to convert it to electric but the cost of that system is too high for us, so we are pursuing Subaru power. Why? Because Love is what makes a Subaru a Subaru. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I think that's one of the dumbest ad campaigns ever.
-Body--My son fell in love with the look of the one-piece front end. I pushed back on this for a while because I don't think that's a great idea for a daily driver, but he wore me out.
-Suspension--We decided not to change much in this phase as our project scope and spend were rapidly expanding. Our friend's EV bug handles great with reinforced stock suspension. So, our plan is to rebuild and reinforce as necessary.
-We're going to try to put as much weight forward as possible to keep it decently balanced fore and aft and the center of gravity low.
My son found a 2000 Subaru Legacy Outback with bad head gaskets for $300. He pulled the 2.5 SOHC engine, wiring harness, and a few parts to sell and cover the purchase cost, then towed the gutted shell to the recycler. Thank you, Organ Donor!
Link
We sold the 1776 engine to fund the rebuild of our Subaru engine.
We pulled our 091 transaxle. It was solid-mounted with a 10 degree kit. The solid mount transmitted a lot of vibration and noise through the body. The front mount was welded crooked, so it tilted the entire engine/trans assembly in the car. Classy!
We had the transmission disassembled and inspected and it received a clean bill of health.
We researched three Subaru/transaxle options:
A. Mate the Subaru Engine to the 091 Transaxle with a Kennedy Adapter plate
B. Mate the Subaru Engine to the 091 Transaxle with a custom RJES or Smallcar.com Bellhousing
C. Modify a Subaru Manual transmission to reverse drive using a Subarugears.com kit and mounting system.
I'm interested to hear other's experiences with the Subaru trans. We've heard from some people that they are a bit weak for an offroad build, then we've also heard from folks racing Baja with them without problems.
I'm aware that people swap Subaru engines into Meyers Manxes, Manxters and Sandrails by using a Subagears transmission or installing an adapter plate to mate to a VW Bus transmission.
But I have yet to find anyone with a Subaru engine installed in a Baja Bug.
If you've got one, I'd love to see photos of your engine mount configuration and your clearance between the body and clearance between the oil pan and the ground.
Last edited by Wheely Applegate on Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:32 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Over the winter, we removed the body and my son started sanding the peeling paint and wire-brushing in search of rust.
Our friend gave us some used Wide 5 disc brakes that had some issues and needed some parts and sorting. We replaced some warped discs, rebuilt cleaned the caliper sliders, and smoothed the surfaces where the pads slide.
We shipped our big messy Subaru engine wiring harness to Mick at Busaru.
He sent us back a wonderfully tidy and fully tested harness. Money well spent! Thanks, Mick!
We removed the pans:
We purchased new thick pans from WolfsburgWest. We located them on the pan, installed the body with several bolts to confirm alignment, then installed a few sheet metal screws into the pans. We then towed it over to our friend Ryan/s. He welded and seam-sealed them.
My son sold the front beam. Why? Other than one faulty adjuster, it was good, but we decided we wanted to upgrade to Sway-Away style adjusters, which meant completely disassembling our beam. And when we took our Subaru engine to our friend to have it rebuilt, we learned he had a Thing beam he might be willing to part with. We decided to start fresh with the Thing beam.
My son also sold our set of 4-lug wheels and tires, and a bunch of accessories.
I ordered a roll cage kit from Mosebilt. My son also bought a one-piece front-end. We chose 1.5" DOM mild steel tube (not chromoly) The tubes that form the critical structure are 0.120" thick wall and the rest is 0.095"
With race cages, most folks weld the floor tubes to the rear torsion tube. This disallows you from removing the body from the pan.
We wanted to retain the ability to separate the body and pan, so I sketched up some steel brackets that connect the cage floor bars to the torsion tube with four M10 bolts.
First, I mocked them up with plywood so to ensure we would be able to access all 4 bolts once the angled tube was welded in place.
I had 4 identical 3/16" steel brackets laser cut. My buddy Adam tig welded a plate to the rear torsion tube.
Then we gusseted them, careful to ensure that we could access the nuts when the body is installed.
Top View:
View from underneath the pan:
We will need to come back to this and weld in sheet metal to close the gaps around our plates:
This took a lot of time raising the body on and off to ensure fitment. Was this bracketing effort worth it? Time will tell.
We spent a lot of time re-working the initial cage structure to our liking. We wanted to maximize headroom, so we positioned the halo as high as possible, but still allowing room to later install some sound deadening foam in the ceiling.
We positioned the primary structure of the cage using tie-downs, bungee cords, wooden shims to get it all to fit.
We placed an old seat on wooden blocks and taped some wood to the roll cage tubes to simulate padding. My son donned a race helmet so we could confirm clearance with the roof structure. Roll cages make bugs really tight in a hurry.
Because we positioned the halo high, we had to bend new A-pillar tubes. Thank you, Seth, for letting me use your tube bender!
I clearanced the dash panel at each end for a few reasons:
-To minimize intrusion to the door opening.
-To allow access to weld future connections to tubes that will run forward and brace the front beam.
-To maximize our window crank clearance.
As this is not a desert car, but a rainy Washington car, we will need to come back and seal these gaps from the elements.
We tipped the B pillar tube forward, and Adam welded the halo and its diagonal braces.
Then he welded the A Pillar tubes. Love me welds as beautiful as a sunset
Now that we had the core structure of the cage built, we paused on cage building as we needed to figure out how to mount the engine and transaxle and tie this structure in with the frame horns. |
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manxvair Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2011 Posts: 231 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:06 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Wheely Applegate wrote: |
We researched three Subaru/transaxle options:
A. Mate the Subaru Engine to the 091 Transaxle with a Kennedy Adapter plate
B. Mate the Subaru Engine to the 091 Transaxle with a custom RJES or Smallcar.com Bellhousing
C. Modify a Subaru Manual transmission to reverse drive using a Subarugears.com kit and mounting system.
I'm interested to hear other's experiences with the Subaru trans. We've heard from some people that they are a bit weak for an offroad build, then we've also heard from folks racing Baja with them without problems.
I'm aware that people swap Subaru engines into Meyers Manxes, Manxters and Sandrails by using a Subagears transmission or installing an adapter plate to mate to a VW Bus transmission.
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. I've been running the Subarugears converted 5 speed manual transmission in my Manxter DSBE since it was 1st built in 2017. We've not only run it in the NORRA Mexican 1000 for the last 4 years, but we've driven it from So-Cal to North Carolina, St Louis, MOAB several Baja CA trips. We've logged over 41,000 miles since 2017. The 5 speed MT has performed awesomely in all types of conditions. The reverse gear is definitely stronger and the Limited Slip differential gives us great traction. We travel a lot in the Manx. I like the comfort of knowing it uses off the shelf Subaru parts such as clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing. These items can be found at most auto parts stores if needed.
Last edited by manxvair on Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Newbold747 Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2020 Posts: 3 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:10 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Nice Work, I like where you are going with this. I did a similar build last year with a 2000 RS2.5 and a KEP adapter with stage 3 clutch. It works pretty good beating all the 2WD Rally Class cars last year. I am now considering a Subaru transmission and turbo Subaru engine maybe mid engine configure it but I like how reliable my stock chassis and stock engine work together.
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Newbold747 Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2020 Posts: 3 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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I use it to race Colorado Hill Climb Association (CHCA)
Link
https://youtu.be/S_F8AXJ7Mmc |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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manxvair wrote: |
I'm aware that people swap Subaru engines into Meyers Manxes, Manxters and Sandrails by using a Subagears transmission or installing an adapter plate to mate to a VW Bus transmission.
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. I've been running the Subarugears converted 5 speed manual transmission in my Manxter DSBE since it was 1st built in 2017. We've not only run it in the NORRA Mexican 1000 for the last 4 years, but we've driven it from So-Cal to North Carolina, St Louis, MOAB several Baja CA trips. We've logged over 41,000 miles since 2017. The 5 speed MT has performed awesomely in all types of conditions. The reverse gear is definitely stronger and the Limited Slip differential gives us great traction. We travel a lot in the Manx. I like the comfort of knowing it uses off the shelf Subaru parts such as clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing. These items can be found at most auto parts stores if needed.
[/quote]
Thanks for the info Manxvair, do you have photos of your engine mount? |
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Wheely Applegate Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2011 Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: 69 Baja Bug Daily Driver/Rallycross Subaru Build |
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Yeehaw! What is your suspension set-up? |
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