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targis58 Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2006 Posts: 539 Location: sunnyvale,ca
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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Hi, there.
As car theft rate is rising fast in my town lately, I started thinking about installing a hidden ignition kill switch on my vanagon where you can easily reach but hidden to turn it on before you start the engine. Has anyone done this or any good suggestion? Any links? I did a quick search but no return.
Thanks
Allen _________________ 90 westy 2wd w/ TBD |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2325 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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I wired a relay in series with the fuel pump ground wire. The coil has power from the 'key in' circuit. A momentary switch in the ground of the coil closes the contacts, which are also connected to the coil ground. This latches the relay on until the key is withdrawn. The momentary switch is hidden from cursory eyeballing. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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bobhill8 Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2017 Posts: 737 Location: MA
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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I typed in "vanagon ignition kill switch" to the box in the upper right (enhanced by Google) and got many many hits. There are lots of options and there has ben quite a bit of debate, so you have plenty of ideas and options to explore. I think some folks don't want to be too specific because then they are providing info to possible vanagon thieves on where to look. _________________ 1986 Westy
1971 Squareback |
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goubeaux Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Barbara, California
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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I've been spinning around this thread on the topic of a "Kill Switch" for a while and have intended to revive it with the idea of installing a latching relay setup on my FP ground:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=706950 |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7472 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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In addition to a kill switch, consider adding a tracking device that alerts you when the van moves and provides location updates.
I use the Spot satellite tracker that works regardless of cell coverage. 30 pages of additional information here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568723 _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16504 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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targis58 wrote: |
Hi, there.
As car theft rate is rising fast in my town lately, I started thinking about installing a hidden ignition kill switch on my vanagon where you can easily reach but hidden to turn it on before you start the engine. Has anyone done this or any good suggestion? Any links? I did a quick search but no return.
Thanks
Allen |
If you are handy then I can help you. PM me. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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goubeaux Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Barbara, California
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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fxr wrote: |
I wired a relay in series with the fuel pump ground wire. The coil has power from the 'key in' circuit. A momentary switch in the ground of the coil closes the contacts, which are also connected to the coil ground. This latches the relay on until the key is withdrawn. The momentary switch is hidden from cursory eyeballing. |
"fxr" can you share the type of relay you used as well as the momentary switch type as well - a source would be great too ?
I have a 40A single-pole, single throw (SPST) relay ( which i believe will work ) But have yet to find a good momentary switch.
The theSamba thread I listed above has some great diagrams on the wiring schematic used for a FP ground kill switch as well. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9613 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:32 am Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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goubeaux wrote: |
But have yet to find a good momentary switch. |
What do you mean by "good"? Are you having trouble finding a momentary that rated to switch 150mA 1 million times? To be realistic about what's happening here, I'll bet you have "yet to find a switch that won't work".
I used a simple latching relay configuration (DPDT) that simply breaks a circuit whenever the power is shut off.
Basically the same operation as the double-relay device you refer to, but the coil only draws 18mA.
I have to press the (hidden) button once after it gets power again, to activate the van.
It's like a "two-step" verification process.
The tiny button can be wired to "somewhere" hidden and only needs one tiny wire (switches to ground).
Basically your van is protected every time the device loses power.
Consequently you never 'forget' to set it.
My interrupt switches about 200mA, which is a very tiny amount.
The fuel pump draws about 2.7 amps if you want to switch that.
===========
It's too bad we can't post pics and how-tos, because the thieves have their smart phones and can google this thread title, for example.
And the other thread.
The reality is that most vanagon thefts are because the Vanagon is easy to steal and offers a place to sleep until the miscreant runs it outta gas.
Consequently a locking gas cap is a good limitation to add (no wiring).
But some will be stolen to part out etc especially as the value continues to rise. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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cmayna Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2014 Posts: 1148 Location: SF Bay area, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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I installed both a kill switch and tracking device shortly after I got our Westy. Yes, a couple times I have forgotten to activate the kill switch but having a tracker helps me sleep at night. _________________ '90 Westy / automatic.
If I'm not working on the camper or my '50 Chebbie truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
Craig |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2325 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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I used just one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0752RMB7Q
The relay can be any old standard 30 or 40A auto relay. A normally open SPST is fine. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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jwallis Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2012 Posts: 569 Location: Austin
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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Hey y'all,
I haven't been back to theSamba for a while, but I have to add a quick plug for my product, developed specifically for Vanagon and other classic VWs. Please let me know if you have any questions. And if you haven't installed the VanAlert app, check it out as well!
Van Tracker: Kill Switch + GPS Tracker with Start Attempt Alerts and Movement Alerts
https://www.thevantracker.com _________________ TheVanTracker.com - Kill Switch + GPS Tracker + Door-open alerts, made specifically for the Vanagon!
50+ YouTube videos - brakes, bearings, CV joints, 1.9/2.1 cooling system, mods, Bostig and more... |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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Help me understand the kill switch idea. If there is no key how does the thief turn the steering wheel. I know that dedicated thieves have the ability to punch out the key locking mechanism and thus be able to steer after hot wiring. I appreciate the single ground controlled relay works well for the fuel pump. So does this mean, you still have your car, but with a broken window and mangled ignition switch?
I have a friend who used to buy $500 hockey skates and $8,000 bicycles and $1500 skis. He would then go to the basement and find a few colors of latex paint and splash the colors all over his brand new items making them look pretty terrible. A fella could faux paint rust all around the rocker panels and put the "broken window" decals on the glass and splash paint around. The interior with Recaro seats and brand new truck fridges and 9,000 AH house systems would all still work just fine. But who of us other than my friend would want to drive such an apparent rolling dumpster fire.
Duncan
P.S. I live in a rural area where I don't ever bother to take the key out of the ignition. I plan to install the grounded relay kill switch, but with a toggle switch on the hot side, so when driving around home, the key will start the car normally. Then when I go to cities or more populated area I can throw the switch to activate the kill switch with the hidden momentary button. It just seems for us non urban guys or not with an obviously fully tricked out Westy, it's a normally unnecessary starting step. I'd rather have a Back to the Future voice recognition system where all I have to do is say "Start". |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16504 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9613 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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DuncanS wrote: |
... but with a toggle switch on the hot side, so when driving around home, the key will start the car normally. Then when I go to cities or more populated area I can throw the switch to activate the kill switch with the hidden momentary button. |
I think a "hidden "valet switch" would be good to have for seldom use but being in the West I prefer that my van is protected every time I pull the key out.
Without publishing the anti-theft details on this permanent, searchable, public database which is easily accessed by Van thieves, let's just say that my system would work well for your rural habits too. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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A locking gas cap is defeatable in about 5 seconds.
I’ve linked my Facebook page “ locked out of your Vanagon?” To these threads for a $25 access fee and just retired on the cash flow. _________________ .ssS! |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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I'm going to have the "valet" switch right out in the open. It's the momentary that will be hidden. For my garage door opener, the switch has a bunch of chips inside so it had to be indoors. I put a spring loaded dowel through to the outside that doesn't look like a button. I will do something like this with the kill switch momentary so it won't even appear to be a switch. Just an 8 d nail head sticking out of the tin on the inside of my dash cover.
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7472 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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Duncan, here in the PNW, Vanagons aren't stolen for their good looks or fancy aftermarket parts. They're stolen to move other stolen goods, house some knuckleheads for a half a day, etc. only to be dumped and found w/in a few miles of the scene of the theft. My seam rusty van is at as much risk as a pristine OG '83 or a super modded Syncro.
I like your friend's approach, if nothing else, that fancy bike would be easy to i.d. on craigslist, etc.
_________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9613 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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jimf909 wrote: |
Duncan, here in the PNW, Vanagons aren't stolen for their good looks or fancy aftermarket parts. They're stolen to move other stolen goods, house some knuckleheads for a half a day, etc. only to be dumped and found w/in a few miles of the scene of the theft. My seam rusty van is at as much risk as a pristine OG '83 or a super modded Syncro. |
We decriminalized auto theft here for several years, creating a career for the kids!
It's still quite decriminalized.
The cops don't care much. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition kill switch? |
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As I have been reported to say when I was three; "I dig not know that."
Luckily, I'm far enough away from serious drug issues that we don't get a lot of stollen goods or have a need for crack houses. There are drugs, of course, but nothing like you have. We do have OD deaths, but not common.
Guess I better get that kill switch relay in immediately. Going on a 1000 miler at the end of the week to populated Connecticut.
We keep hearing that thieves don't tend to be too smart. If I were going to steal stuff that needed transporting or a crash crib, the last vehicle I'd choose would be something that's 30 years old and might have Vanagon Syndrome or Sudden Death Tranny things right while in the middle of a heist. I'd grab a soccer mom van first. I don't have curtains. I wonder if that is a plus for the bad guys as they can hide their loot during the transport? |
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