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21golden007 Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Pretty jealous hearing that Ecotec purr. I struggled to make it up a 1 degree incline hill today, on pavement. |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Don’t be too jealous, I have played with air cooled low HP stuff and I’m not sure this is better, but it certainly faster for the same $. The radiator is something I could live without.
I’m concerned about the radiator surviving long term on its side. That along with Suspension seats, skid plates, type 2 outer CVs, window nets, helmet air, radios, gps, better intake, different belts, and needing a bigger fuel cell to race LOL NEXT WINTER _________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Finally was able to get this thing insured, drove it home from the shop and took a quick ride by the lake. Fans on and 90 degrees out it runs 185*F at 50 mph.
Clutch cable is either slipping or stretching, I need to mess with it to see which.
_________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Going through some teething now that I’m putting some miles on it. Clutch cable splice was slipping but some better clamps fixed that issue
It is slowly working the remaining air out of the cooling system, the horizontal radiator with bottom inlet hoses makes it hard to bleed the air out. Now it’s running 173-174 at 50mph cruise.
I finally sent my info in to Winnie, and she confirmed I have a genuine Manx 2 which is exciting! _________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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1madmanx wrote: |
sailtexas186548 wrote: |
The fans don’t shut off once they come on due to the lack of a vss signal so I’ll have to come up with one and pin it to the ecu and tweak the tune, but it’s staying cool so far |
I'm following closely to see what your temps are at sustained speed so please do post your results.
As for the fan switch - in case you end up pulling the engine again or can get to the hot outlet port on the head, here is how Joe set up my fans to come on at temp and to shut off when it cools down. Sound like your ECM manages the power-on side so this should work for you too. https://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=4480&p=29261#p29261
I'm glad to see your progress. Hope to see you at NORRA in 2022.
Bud |
I just went back and looked at your radiator set up, I think you are suffering from it being too small and thick. A thinner, larger unit always works better than a thicker more compact one. Typically if you design the radiator to have enough heat transfer capacity for 35-40% of engine power it will be enough provided you can get it the airflow it needs. You have one 10” and one 8” fan that combined probably only move 1000cfm or less as installed. I have three 10” fans (almost three times as much fan area) and they are pulling through a much thinner core so they are likely moving more air since they are fighting less delta. I will even suggest your fans are overrated by the manufacture, the figures you posted are really high for such small fans, I suspect that is at zero delta and used for better marketing. I went with SPAL fans because they are one of the top manufacturers and used in OEM applications, my 10” fans are rated under 1000cfm each. I will run at 75mph sustained to see if mine setup remains cool, but my shorter gearing will have me at 3750rpm Vs your 3100. _________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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sailtexas186548 wrote: |
1madmanx wrote: |
sailtexas186548 wrote: |
The fans don’t shut off once they come on due to the lack of a vss signal so I’ll have to come up with one and pin it to the ecu and tweak the tune, but it’s staying cool so far |
I'm following closely to see what your temps are at sustained speed so please do post your results.
As for the fan switch - in case you end up pulling the engine again or can get to the hot outlet port on the head, here is how Joe set up my fans to come on at temp and to shut off when it cools down. Sound like your ECM manages the power-on side so this should work for you too. https://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=4480&p=29261#p29261
I'm glad to see your progress. Hope to see you at NORRA in 2022.
Bud |
I just went back and looked at your radiator set up, I think you are suffering from it being too small and thick. A thinner, larger unit always works better than a thicker more compact one. Typically if you design the radiator to have enough heat transfer capacity for 35-40% of engine power it will be enough provided you can get it the airflow it needs. You have one 10” and one 8” fan that combined probably only move 1000cfm or less as installed. I have three 10” fans (almost three times as much fan area) and they are pulling through a much thinner core so they are likely moving more air since they are fighting less delta. I will even suggest your fans are overrated by the manufacture, the figures you posted are really high for such small fans, I suspect that is at zero delta and used for better marketing. I went with SPAL fans because they are one of the top manufacturers and used in OEM applications, my 10” fans are rated under 1000cfm each. I will run at 75mph sustained to see if mine setup remains cool, but my shorter gearing will have me at 3750rpm Vs your 3100. |
I changed the fan and rad on Bud's Manx and the results were astounding. Same thickness, same length, but taller rad by about 25% and changed to a larger single Spal fan. The first combination never over heated, just ran hotter than what we were comfortable with considering what Bud has planned for it over time.
I ran sustained between 95 and 100 mph for 11 minutes and the high was 191* F and cycled between 170 and the 191. I also ran sustained at over 80 mph for 25 minutes with the fan shutting off for about 30 seconds then on for about 2 minutes.
The test the next weekend resulted in very similar results again with a high right at 191 and low at a high 160's for an hour cruise in 90+ temps.
With about 3400 miles on the rest of the systems, and the cooling sorted out, it is now ready for some cross country trips. First one coming up in mid-July through about 3/4's of the Appalachian Mountain range. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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my solstice with the le5 runs 185-199 with the new tstat, the old one it was 185-189. fucking stant china shit t stat....the oe one's rubber seal let go as they all do and it was throwing a code for not warming fast enough.... also I noticed the exhaust header gasket you have.. from what Ive red dont use that one. it wont last, use the GM gasket, most places just reuse the oe gasket, new gm one is $14-19, might be worth getting one. mine is so fucking slow Im debating putting a hair dryer on it....but I dont really want to fuck with the car. I must be getting old. |
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1madmanx Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2007 Posts: 686 Location: Wilmington, NC
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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joescoolcustoms wrote: |
sailtexas186548 wrote: |
1madmanx wrote: |
sailtexas186548 wrote: |
The fans don’t shut off once they come on due to the lack of a vss signal so I’ll have to come up with one and pin it to the ecu and tweak the tune, but it’s staying cool so far |
I'm following closely to see what your temps are at sustained speed so please do post your results.
As for the fan switch - in case you end up pulling the engine again or can get to the hot outlet port on the head, here is how Joe set up my fans to come on at temp and to shut off when it cools down. Sound like your ECM manages the power-on side so this should work for you too. https://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=4480&p=29261#p29261
I'm glad to see your progress. Hope to see you at NORRA in 2022.
Bud |
I just went back and looked at your radiator set up, I think you are suffering from it being too small and thick. A thinner, larger unit always works better than a thicker more compact one. Typically if you design the radiator to have enough heat transfer capacity for 35-40% of engine power it will be enough provided you can get it the airflow it needs. You have one 10” and one 8” fan that combined probably only move 1000cfm or less as installed. I have three 10” fans (almost three times as much fan area) and they are pulling through a much thinner core so they are likely moving more air since they are fighting less delta. I will even suggest your fans are overrated by the manufacture, the figures you posted are really high for such small fans, I suspect that is at zero delta and used for better marketing. I went with SPAL fans because they are one of the top manufacturers and used in OEM applications, my 10” fans are rated under 1000cfm each. I will run at 75mph sustained to see if mine setup remains cool, but my shorter gearing will have me at 3750rpm Vs your 3100. |
I changed the fan and rad on Bud's Manx and the results were astounding. Same thickness, same length, but taller rad by about 25% and changed to a larger single Spal fan. The first combination never over heated, just ran hotter than what we were comfortable with considering what Bud has planned for it over time.
I ran sustained between 95 and 100 mph for 11 minutes and the high was 191* F and cycled between 170 and the 191. I also ran sustained at over 80 mph for 25 minutes with the fan shutting off for about 30 seconds then on for about 2 minutes.
The test the next weekend resulted in very similar results again with a high right at 191 and low at a high 160's for an hour cruise in 90+ temps.
With about 3400 miles on the rest of the systems, and the cooling sorted out, it is now ready for some cross country trips. First one coming up in mid-July through about 3/4's of the Appalachian Mountain range. |
Update on what Joe has already provided. We just completed our final shake-down run. Two weeks on the road and 2600 miles through 6 states with varying elevations and speeds. Highest temp seen was 194 degrees at 70-75 mph sustained (I95 traffic) with the outside temps ~90 degrees. Our solution was the radiator and custom air scoop that my wife and I made.
I've updated my build thread with a lot of details (page 3) on the cooling solution for this Zarkov buggy: https://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=4480
How are you initial results with your rad setup?
_________________ Bud (1Madmanx)
Wilmington, NC
'68 Meyers Manx Dune Buggy M1996F826S
'66 Kombi Bus
'73 Thing
Visit my Galleries:
https://manxclub.com/forum/app.php/gallery/album/44 |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Glad to hear you have it staying cool! That radiator design looks much more efficient.
I had had some delays getting titled, I had to chase down some original signatures on bills of sale… so I have not been able to test much. I have driven it some, Running in Texas in august, at 55mph I am having no issues, in fact the lack of vss signal to turn the fans off, and what I think is lack of thermostat (alpha fab engine, I assumed they would have installed a stock t stat but maybe not) is staying under 185. I will know more soon now that I have all the paperwork in order _________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Made it out to the local cruise in last weekend
_________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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All my Inspections are done and paperwork is in to the state, should have plates maybe this week!?
Took it on a 70 mile drive, 60-65 mph for 7 miles in one go, got to 192 max water temp. I can’t cruise long distance much faster than that with my gearing, that’s 3250rpm.
I have about 115 miles on it in the Texas summer, no issues with anything so I think it “works” just fine. A little suspension tuning, trim the seat belts, wash and wax, then on to the next project!
_________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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21golden007 Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Have you been able to get into the power a bit? how's it feel? I'm currently fishing for a 2.4 for the buggy.... |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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21golden007 wrote: |
Have you been able to get into the power a bit? how's it feel? I'm currently fishing for a 2.4 for the buggy.... |
Yes I finally made a few pulls, it is ROWDY. 0-75 (top of 3rd, 6800 rpm) is very quick, shifting to 4th drops me down to 3750 rpm which is max TQ so it keeps pulling but its noticeably slower, by 85 the aero starts to really hit and I have not stayed in it any longer than that.
It weighs 1570 with an empty fuel tank, so half tank and me in it is 1765lbs with an advertised "200hp" probably 165 wheel HP... _________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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21golden007 Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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No need to go faster than 75 anyways. Just want to get there in a hurry |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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After much delay and chasing paperwork, I have plates/registration/title!
_________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Running great still, trying to drive it more
Link
Grocery getter:
_________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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sailtexas186548 Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2014 Posts: 423 Location: Kemah, Tx
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Manx II “2-Face” Ecotec IRS Bus 091 |
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Finally got off the pavement! I I got into some serious whee hop while I was on the throttle, and scattered a type one cv which was no surprise. The reason I run them on the outside is they are cheaper and easier to fix than anything else in the drivetrain, like a mechanical fuse.
Some action shots:
_________________ it's more fun loud and dirty |
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