Real time help in Kalispell - starter issue - SOLVED

[jimf909]

[Wildthings]

[Abscate]

[jimf909]

[sjbartnik]

I always did it with the big Craftsman screwdriver.

Before crawling under:

1) Put transmission in neutral!! Double check!!

2) Set parking brake

3) Chock wheels if you have a chock.

Crawl under and very carefully short terminal 30 on the solenoid (it's the big ring terminal where the battery connects) to the spade terminal (terminal 50) using the screwdriver shank. Be prepared for the sparks and the fact that the engine starting right next to your head is louder than when you are in the driver's seat.

Be careful not to short terminal 30 to ground with the screwdriver!

If the van is in gear when you do this, the starter will crank the engine and the van will roll forward and run you over.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[SCM]

[dobryan]

[AndyBees]

Back in the day (college years in the late 60s early 70s), I saw a lot of those old 6 volt Beetles with a hole cut cut behind the back seat to access the starter and usually a hammer laying nearby ....LOL

Wild Things, I've never seen a solenoid with grease in it ......... I always cleaned the plunger and cylinder extremely well, flushed out with brake cleaner, etc., and maybe the use of some 400 grit sand paper, then spray with Silicone lube ...

There is a tremendous current loss thru the #50 starter wire from the ignition to the Solenoid, thus, the installation of a Relay will solve most of the starter issues, especially when hot.

Lastly, every owner of a vintage VW needs to learn how to kick start ...... practice the procedure in case you ever need to do it ... in my opinion, 3rd gear works best, especially if not much of a hill or if people are pushing the vehicle on flat ground.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[teej]

Great amount of info folks, thanks!
So we are underway again, just with intermittent cell coverage. Modified our itinerary a bit to be less remote, and campsite and parking selection now includes option to roll start. But the issue has not occurred again, and we have shut down and re started about 6 times now.
I will heed the good advice here and practice some of the techniques discussed!
Hitting anything with a hammer to make it work is pretty ridiculous hence my reference to Fonzi. For those who did not grow up watching Happy Days it was a TV show set in the 50s and Fonzi was a “cool guy” character who would hit a reluctant juke box to get it to play, this happened every other episode it seemed.
Thanks again, and it looks like a starter project is in my future.
And Little Miss Sunshine is a great funny movie, thanks for the humor!
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1986+ Wolfsburg Weekender Pop-Top 2.3 WBX Manual Trans

[Sodo]

[Wildthings]

[AndyBees]

Well, I've owned a number of beetles, 1960, 1966, 1969, 1973 and 1976 and have kick-started everyone of them at one time or another, especially those first two with the 6 volt systems. Third gear always worked fine, particularly if the vehicle is moving slowly. If the vehicle is moving too slow when using 2nd gear, the engine can actually stop the vehicle in it's tracks.

I've shared this story previously, but would like to share it again.

My wife and I pulled into a slot at the local Root Beer Stand ... about 1973. We were in our nice 1960 Ragtop Beetle (sarcasm). While sitting there a dude rolled in beside us on his Harley decked out in all the leather, etc., sporting a big beard and nice set of shades. Well, when we finished our Root Beer and hot dog, the Beetle Starter would only click .. after several clicks, the dude on the Harley ask, will it kick start? I said sure, my wife exited the Beetle to help push, he said, mam, get back in the car, I can push it ....... he did and I kick started on first try ..... That was only one of several times I had to kick-start that ol' Beetle ...

Nope! I've never opened a starter solenoid to find grease, dried or otherwise in it. And, I've opened a lot from Chevys to VWs.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[82westyrabbit]

Because we have turned this into a thread on bump starting. In the early 90s there was a time when it was hard to get diesel van starters. I ran with a intermittent starter for years. I was careful where I parked it. Any slight down hill I would just get in it would start rolling I would let out the clutch and off I would go. I had my manager at the time ride with me for a week and didn’t realize the stater didn’t work. Of course now with the internet we can find just about any part we need. After two or three junk rebuilt starters I installed a TDI starter with a starter adapter and a relay system. Now it just starts every time. Like everyone before me has said start by cleaning the connection on the starter. Roll start it to finish your trip if necessary. I don’t like playing with the starter when I am under the van myself. Enjoy the trip. John

[teej]

Update: I edited the thread title for future searchers.

After a couple days, the issue did re-occur twice: once first thing in the morning (engine cold), and once in front of our house while shuttling vehicles to park it right when we got home (engine hot).

I will do a little more checking and testing but have ordered Karl's adapter and he recommended the SR0425N starter, $130 no core from Rock Auto.

Question: I am still curious why it appeared that wire #50 was not getting voltage while operating ignition switch. I think I probably just didn't have my test leads on it well, so will retest. Bentley says to disconnect terminal 1 on the coil when doing this test. Is this necessary and why? (I didn't when testing on the road when the problem first occured)

Edit: measurement error is the answer. In the comfort of my own driveway I tested more accurately, 12.63v at #30 connection, 12.42v at #50 wire while operating ignition switch. I also noticed some nasty corrosion on the tiny braided wire on the solenoid. New starter arrives Friday.

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1986+ Wolfsburg Weekender Pop-Top 2.3 WBX Manual Trans

[danfromsyr]

when a test light won't help because you can't be in 2 places at once.
I tend to use a test buzzer.
the early vans and VWs older than 1984 had a simple 2 pole 'relay' Buzzer for the open door alert.

you hook one post to the expected +12v power
and the other to a GDN. a length of wire with some alligator clamps helps make it easy.

like a test light it won't tell you if there's sufficient ampacity in the supply side.
just that there is continuity in the supply side.. ie there's noise there's power.

when I did a diy hack diesel install, I used one of these on the glowplugs in lieu of the dash glow light.

none the less it's a handy item to keep for diagnostic testing.

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[teej]

I think this can be declared solved. WestyVentures adapter, new starter, and new connector to #50. When adding the new connector I also discovered a nick in the insulation of the OE wire which allowed some corrosion to progress, I ended up cutting it back about 5" and got to some better wire.
For good measure I replaced the ground strap at the transmission (again, I did this already in 2010 or 11 but a decade goes by remarkably fast it seems) and added a local ground to the upper starter bolt.
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1986+ Wolfsburg Weekender Pop-Top 2.3 WBX Manual Trans

[Wildthings]

[teej]

[Paulbeard]

[4Gears4Tires]

If the incline doesn't seem to be enough or the run out isn't enough, you can bump start and use the key at the same time. This requires good timing but it can be just the trick you need to start in some place like a gas station where there isn't a whole lot of space.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition