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Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

This auction is a disappointment. Not the car, just the auction itself. I don't recall any other Ghias on BAT where the seller made obvious incorrect statements about the car. This is not typical on BAT.

The car is not for me but it's not a terrible car. It has plenty of issues, but at the right price, a new owner can have plenty of fun with it if they like this sort of restoration, and as long as they know what they are buying.
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

A 69 Vert is now up for grabs on BAT with no reserve. It's not perfect, but it's mostly a survivor in very decent condition.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-volkswagen-karmann-ghia-convertible-9/
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:

I look forward to the day where correctly and professionally done cars show up.


Hey I'm working on it. I'm not building this 66 to...keep it, lol Cool

Anyway, I can't wait to hear what the seller comes up with to respond to all of this. I was going to refrain from commenting on a car with so many issues until I watched the video about the nose. I had to comment after watching that. He literally points at damage repair while saying, 'there is no damage'. WTF!

I'll admit I don't scour every BAT auction. I mostly look at Ghias and air-cooled Porsches. But I don't recall seeing a BAT listing where the seller was so obviously dishonest.
And most embarrassingly, he's from my neck of the woods. 27606 is about 15 minutes from me on the S/SW side of Raleigh. I'm on the S side of Raleigh.
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Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD

Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

Era Vulgaris wrote:
Braukuche wrote:

I look forward to the day where correctly and professionally done cars show up.


Hey I'm working on it. I'm not building this 66 to...keep it, lol Cool

Anyway, I can't wait to hear what the seller comes up with to respond to all of this. I was going to refrain from commenting on a car with so many issues until I watched the video about the nose. I had to comment after watching that. He literally points at damage repair while saying, 'there is no damage'. WTF!

I'll admit I don't scour every BAT auction. I mostly look at Ghias and air-cooled Porsches. But I don't recall seeing a BAT listing where the seller was so obviously dishonest.
And most embarrassingly, he's from my neck of the woods. 27606 is about 15 minutes from me on the S/SW side of Raleigh. I'm on the S side of Raleigh.


He’s a dealer, so maybe he thinks Ghias came from the factory with the inside of the nose looking like a bag of walnuts. Or he’s the worlds worst liar.
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Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
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kingkarmann
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

Marcdeb wrote:
A 69 Vert is now up for grabs on BAT with no reserve. It's not perfect, but it's mostly a survivor in very decent condition.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-volkswagen-karmann-ghia-convertible-9/

I'm really smitten with this one Cool
It sure has been well loved.
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

Marcdeb wrote:
A 69 Vert is now up for grabs on BAT with no reserve. It's not perfect, but it's mostly a survivor in very decent condition.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-volkswagen-karmann-ghia-convertible-9/


That thing is solid and relatively unmolested but I see it is as a restoration candidate more than as a finished car. The original components are too worn, cracked dash pad cracked dash with requisite missing glove box cover, seats are compressed, some parts like the carpets and mirrors etc could be incorporated into a restoration, but the rest is too worn. Anyway, it should sell for strong money you just don’t find convertibles that dry and solid everyday.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
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theghiagirl
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

I wonder why the seal between the inner fender and the nose is missing on the driver's side.
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

theghiagirl wrote:
I wonder why the seal between the inner fender and the nose is missing on the driver's side.


Looks like some sort of repair by the bumper bracket.
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Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
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ghiamanjc
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

I'm confused as to what in the serial number would indicate this was one of the last ones made? This one would be one of the early 74's right?

The birth certificate says it was built on 15 Oct, 1973.

****
KG did not necessarily serialize their serial numbers. It was close but not exact. Here is a list of all 74 KGs that I could find including this car.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O4MQepBrAnwCKn9EXzSVPUmVA_oUOJU-WrmFUxON-qQ/edit#gid=0
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

Marcdeb wrote:
A 69 Vert is now up for grabs on BAT with no reserve. It's not perfect, but it's mostly a survivor in very decent condition.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-volkswagen-karmann-ghia-convertible-9/


Sold for $41,000! A year ago this might have topped out in the mid to high teens. Where's all this interest coming from? In my opinion, I think that certain sellers on BAT know how to influence bidders. Some of the posts made on the auctions seem suspicious to me?? Not just on Ghias but even on other makes.

This car is nice, and it may be mechanically squared away, but it's far from being at the level of a $41,000 price tag. I get that it's a survivor, but it's been repainted, the door panels are cheep reproduction, the engine compartment and trunk areas need lots of attention. The front seats were restuffed, but they look all lumpy and and it doesn't look like a great job at all. The drivers door gaps are off and the rear bottom corner protrudes outward. Is it just me or does that nice clean underside look abnormal? A car with 80K miles doesn't look like that underneath. And taking a good look at the the bottom of the rockers looks abnormal also. This is an older repaint with chips along the edges of the hood yet the bottom of the rockers look like shiny new paint to me? There's plenty about this car that needs attention.

Don't get me wrong, yes it's a nice car. I would love to own it, but to me it's just not a $41,000 car, even with the higher values that Ghias are getting.

It seems like there are 2 types of auctions on BAT, dealer auctions and the average owner auctions and bidding seems to be different when it's a dealer.
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

I didn't realize that was Colin Comer selling that vert. My first thought when that auction first started was, this seller should know better than to take pics in the shade and not in the sunlight. That's an odd move for someone so experienced with selling and buying.
But as to the car itself, I'm sure with the resources he has available to him, he had the car detailed to the 9's for the sale, which would account for the clean floorpan, etc.
FL-Frank and Ghiagirl both have had very strong auctions for their coupes, and neither are dealers as far as I'm aware.
But I agree, $41k was alot higher than I was expecting for that car in the condition it was in.
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Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD

Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue


Last edited by Era Vulgaris on Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

I thought the 69 would go for around $27k maybe hit $30k. To me it was an insanely solid and original metal car that was an excellent basis for a nice restoration. But that price was more like a restored price. But BAT buyers seem to not mind paying a premium for older restorations or worn refreshes like this.
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Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
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rcooled
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

Era Vulgaris wrote:
...$41k was alot higher than I was expecting for that car in the condition it was in.

Holy crap..that's crazy money for that car! Must've been bought by a charter member of the 'More-Money-Than-Brains' club Rolling Eyes
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'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone)
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

A 1965 Vert up for auction. Black with red interior. Beautiful color combination. Car looks great at 30 feet but it has a lot of issues. Another decent Ghia for someone to rescue. I need a bigger garage, but then I can't afford it if the last auction is any indicator of what this will bid to. These are fun to watch at least.
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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kingkarmann
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-volkswagen-karmann-ghia-convertible-3/
It has a nice look but it's sure rough under that curvy skin.
It's selling for some sort of reserve. If it's more than $15k it's too much IMO.
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rcooled
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

kingkarmann wrote:
If it's more than $15k it's too much IMO.

Looks like it was painted with a brush Confused
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'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone)
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John Moxon Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

rcooled wrote:
kingkarmann wrote:
If it's more than $15k it's too much IMO.

Looks like it was painted with a brush Confused


Not sure you get the orange peel effect with a brush. My black Ghia was resprayed in the late '80s and had orange peel all over until it was finished properly in 2011.
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PeteSC
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

John Moxon wrote:
rcooled wrote:
kingkarmann wrote:
If it's more than $15k it's too much IMO.

Looks like it was painted with a brush Confused


Not sure you get the orange peel effect with a brush. My black Ghia was resprayed in the late '80s and had orange peel all over until it was finished properly in 2011.


Maybe sanded with 80 grit then painted? That or a primer layer was brush applied....there's definite grooves in the base. The black is definitely sprayed I think.

It's got the torsion cover delete option too, nice!
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

The paint job is the least of the concerns because it’s all going to come off anyway.
That car is slathered in bondo over rust. The rockers on one side are actually sagging under the door, from the underside you can see the heater channels are rotten, the contours of the top of the headlight buckets are different which means that area has been “repaired,” the upper corners of the trunk are irregular and sharp which means they were rotten and bondoed up. Filler is literally falling off the sides of the car…this poor car is only worth restoring if you get it for $5k which is the value of the parts and can do all the metal, body and paint yourself.
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Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
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overboost
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions Reply with quote

Looks like the rear left lower engine compartment panel is flat sheet metal repair as well. Definitely had some rust in it's lifetime. It also has a decent knock in the motor in the start up video. That under dash cassette deck should seal the deal...
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