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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Here is the long lost home made brass thrust bearing Dad and I found in a used engine back in the early to mid '70s.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Looks like they knew what they were doing. That's a serious bearing!
I wonder if VW's would have been better off with solid bronze bearings to begin with. Or it that would be a viable "perfomance" option if one had the will, time, and ability.
Maybe it was made out a giant bronze brushing that was turned down and shaped carefully _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 767 Location: New England
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Wonder what the alloy is? Looks to have held up well. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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WOW!
Was this made by a local...or something commercial you bought?
Did it work?
Sorry...saw that you found it. Still...did you ever try it in an engine?
Ray
Last edited by raygreenwood on Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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I'm not a machinist but I know enough to understand that someone didn't whip this one up at coffee time! This was the only bearing in the engine done this way.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
WOW!
Was this made by a local...or something commercial you bought?
Did it work?
Sorry...saw that you found it. Still...did you ever try it in an engine?
Ray |
Found it in a used engine many years ago Ray. It was obviously running in that engine for some time. I have no history on it. Saved it because it is so unusual. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Feels very heavy! No I haven't sized it up for oil clearance or tried it. Looks like there could be a but of pulled material on 2 places on the inner wear surface. Could have been a dry start up or oil pressure loss.
It has been in service long enough to develop a bit of a track where the flywheel shims ran. You can catch your nail on it in places.
It's a bit of a work of art in my mind... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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oprn wrote: |
Feels very heavy! No I haven't sized it up for oil clearance or tried it. Looks like there could be a but of pulled material on 2 places on the inner wear surface. Could have been a dry start up or oil pressure loss.
It has been in service long enough to develop a bit of a track where the flywheel shims ran. You can catch your nail on it in places.
It's a bit of a work of art in my mind... |
Ok....next...are you sure its brass...and not bronze? I wonder because there are some bearing bronzes out there....that are hard as crap!
I bought a plate a few years back to make a flat sliding bronze part. It was C954 aluminum bronze. Jesus ...it is hard stuff. Yes...a proper milling machine could work it...but damn hard and stiff for self lubricating bronze.
I would think something like that could do better for a hard slamming clutch and flywheel.
Very cool!
Ray |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 767 Location: New England
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Any idea what application the engine was used for? Bronze and brass bearings are traditionally used in big, low rev (think steam) engines. Somewhat common in 100+ year old agricultural engines, not necessarily the crank bearings . Poured babbitt bearings are more common in the smaller ancient stuff. Man, would love to know the story of how and why this bearing came to be. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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I think its bearing bronze. My guess is that it was made from a large large oil impregnated bronze bushing, the type you can normally find at the local hardware store in smaller sizes. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Ya, no idea as to the alloy. I don't recall that the engine was anything special for application at this point. No governor or anything like that ended up in our possession. And like I said before no other unusual internal pieces were there.
40 hp engine is what keeps coming to mind but I can't swear on that. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Maybe it was used in a Experimental aircraft engine, I am pretty sure the prop adapter would put some stress on the thrust bearing.
eQ _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5417 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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That is really cool.
I wonder if it is a cast/billet machined bronze, or a sintered bronze? Sintered could be fragile on the thrust flange, but a solid bearing bronze could be really interesting. Would a bronze bearing increase crank wear being a harder alloy?…particularly an aluminum bronze. I would imagine a lead bronze could be excellent. Perhaps ridged enough that it would be similar to a steel backed aluminum bearing? _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5417 Location: Holland, MI
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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doesn't look sintered. Looks billet.
Yeah, the bearing will hold up fine. I bet the crankshaft not so much.
Bearing materials are an important part of making a motor last.
I'd venture to say that Bronze/Brass is way harder than even an "H" bearing.
Probably too hard when it comes to journal wear. I bet the crankshaft that ran on that bearing is way undersize now. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Now way to know now as the matching crank could still be here and I would not know which one it is or it could be long gone. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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calvinater Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 3330 Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Wouldn't that just pound the case harder than a standard bearing? _________________ "Albatross"! |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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Can't imagine why. Lots of bearing sets have a steel backed #2 and that is desirable to help lessen case pounding. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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If I were to re-use it I would be tempted to chuck it up in my lathe, turn it slow and take a torch and carefully melt a skin of solder on the wear surface. Then re size/true it up to new spec.
I doubt that will happen, I will likely just keep it as is for a conversation piece. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5417 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Found the brass main thrust bearing |
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My guess is crank wear could be accelerated from lack of embed-ability. If steel particles are present in the oil, they won’t embed into the bearing, away from the crank. they will stay in the hydrodynamic oil film between the crank and bearing, and grind the crank. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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