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Stop belt slipping
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: gtound cable Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Do Barns in Az have “chew mail pouch Tobacco on them?”


No sir.

Our motto: "We don't smoke, we don't chew and we don't go with girls who do".
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: gtound cable Reply with quote

Dexter Johnson wrote:
...I was directed here by Everett Barns...

Hmmm...I suspect that Mr. Barns [né "Barnes"?] was misunderstood.

OP: In the spirit of true science, I suggest you start a new thread with your ground strap findings.

It would be helpful to know more of your methodology and clarification of your results, and I look forward
to further lively discussion and greater understanding of this important link in the van electrical system.

PS: I know I'm about due for a good strapping... Twisted Evil ... Shocked ... Wink ... Cool ...

- Dave
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Butcher
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

Have you ever used a belt tension gauge? Most people/mechanics never have. They are taught to check the belt with your fingers.

I highly recommend everyone to use a belt tension gauge once in their life. You will be surprised to see how you are wrong about belt tension. Everyone freaks out about a torque wrench, but no one does about this gauge. I bet your way too loose.

Beg/Borrow/steal one, use it and learn something.

https://www.jbtools.com/otc-6673-universal-belt-te...gJQS_D_BwE
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

My belt tension always feels too tight after a pizza.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

Butcher wrote:
Have you ever used a belt tension gauge? Most people/mechanics never have. They are taught to check the belt with your fingers.

I highly recommend everyone to use a belt tension gauge once in their life...


I thought this was sound advice so I bought a gadget to measure tension. Not the $145 tool that was linked to, but a simpler, cheaper device made by Gates.

No doubt the expensive tool with a dial indicator is best practice but I'll see if I can get consistent results with the simple version.

What I do not know is what the tension should be. The instructions offer some generic suggestions but say to use the manufacturer's recommendation.

My apologies if this is in the Bentley - mine is not here with me right now.

Thanks for any info you have.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

Butcher,

That would be interesting to know and feel the difference. I'm super anal about belts and their tension which I've been hand doing for 40 years on my hobby cars. Probably TMI, but I always insist on getting the Toyota belts for my 80 series Cruisers because they're hand matched at the factory and hand tied together in matching pairs with a little piece of twine. OK, anal tendencies duly noted by my Vanagon buds. Moving on.

If anyone in the PNW gets one of these and goes to a big event it would be fun (in a sick way, I grant) to go from Vanagon to Vanagon with it comparing and letting old timers like me get a "tune up" on our felt tension. Let's get over this Covid crap and get back to hanging out!!

Doug
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
Butcher wrote:
Have you ever used a belt tension gauge? Most people/mechanics never have. They are taught to check the belt with your fingers.

I highly recommend everyone to use a belt tension gauge once in their life...

I thought this was sound advice so I bought a gadget to measure tension. Not the $145 tool that was linked to, but a simpler, cheaper device made by Gates...

Like so?


Link

https://www.amazon.com/Gates-91107-Belt-Tension-Tester/dp/B000MUTAGS

- Dave
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Butcher
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

I guess if you do not know the proper tension number, then a gauge would not be any use for you. The tool I mentioned does have numbers and a green area.

The tool was made pretty simple and had a range for the thin [9.5] belts as well as the thicker [12] belts. All you had to do is install it and see where the dial was. I see the newest gauges no longer have this dual scale.

I do not recall the tension numbers. I did notice the images on the tool I posted does have some numbers. You can see for yourself what they are.

Mostly the reason for posting my thoughts, is that most people do not tighten belts properly. If they should ever use the proper belt tension gauge, they will usually be surprised how tight a properly tensioned belt is. The older the person is, the more they are set in their ways. Once they see how a properly tightened belt is, they mention it's too tight and will destroy bearings. I've never seen belts destroy bearings. I've seen destroyed old bearings and usually they blame the recently installed belt.

I agree with the video and their findings. I learned in 1980 and I see all the information that is out there has not changed much.

I would be curious those that purchase a gauge to share their input.
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

More fun stuff, FWIW: https://www.gates.com/us/en/knowledge-center/calculators/belt-tension-calculator.html

- Dave
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

calculations and gauges aside, i think the empirical test for belt tension is to tighten just to the point where the squawking stops. yes, this requires at least two retensions but new belts typically stretch a tad anyway. belt slippage is bad and will scortch the belt in a bad way, so you don't want that. just tighten a skootch at a time until the startup squawk is no more and you are at the perfect tension. any more and you are loading bearings unneccessarily.

the alt, crank and AC compressor bearings really are tolerant of tension because they have support of the tension from 2 or more locations along the axis. it's the water pump bearing that is hanging its rear end out there without support so the leverage arm of the moment brunt is born by the width of the single bearing.
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Butcher
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

I know there are plenty of people here that like to play with their VW but I prefer to make a repair/adjustment once.
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Dexter Johnson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

There were people that that didn't trust driving the water pump with the ac belt because of the reliability of the ac compressor. Now with the engine running cooler there is less of a chance to blow out the cooling system. Even so what I didn't say is that I had planed to have some way to indicate if there were a problem with the compressor. The ac clutch is magnetic, it uses electric current to create a magnetic attraction, it doesn't use voltage to do it. As luck would have it, I had made a constant current circuit that was already being used before the upgrade. So all I had to do was to add a crowbar circuit. The clutch is it's own temperature sensor, I look up the coefficient of resistance of copper and set the fuse to blow at the boiling point of water, the 5 amp fuse hasn't blown yet so the temperature must be about right.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Stop belt slipping Reply with quote

Belt deflection (tension?) is all relative to free span.

No matter the belt, the longer it spans from pulley A to pulley B the more deflection you will get from it.

On a long span you can tighten that sucker super tight....... it will deflect.

Haven't you ever seen the belt tension diagrams showing a dotted straight line for the belts normal course and then a thumb pushing the belt down with a dimension shown?

Belt tension ain't rocket science.

On my 90 2.1 I will get a moment of cold squeal on a cold morning, but it goes away. I see some of you pooh pooh increased bearing wear from overly tight belts, but with over 50 years of wrenching behind me........ I'm a believer.

I'm still trying to figure out why my 86 2.1 popped the Power Steering belt out around Crater Lake?
It was hanging on the dipstick tube. It just jumped off. I was pleased it didn't tangle with the Alternator belt!
Because of my chronic Auto Trans leak, and running the RMW tank that has no exterior level check, that engine literally got a once over every morning without fail! A horribly loose belt I would have noticed.

All looked well, pulleys good and aligned....... put on a new one years ago, it is still there.

I have found that the alternator belt specs list a longer belt than the Power Steering belt.
I've found that belt to be too long and I run out of adjustment. I now run the power steering belt length on both accessories.

NAPA
NBH257430 P/S
NBH257435 Alt / Water Pump (I use the 7430 here too)
NBH259455 A/C

Dave
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