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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:40 pm Post subject: Car started pinging... |
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while driving back from picking up my delicious Dominos pizza.
I noticed the oil level was a bit high on the dipstick as well and smelled a bit like fuel but not overly so.
I went to remove the fuel pump to have a looksee, but I discovered the nuts holding the fuel pump to the engine case were quite loose.
Have I already found my problem, and just tightening the nuts will solve the issue? Or do I definitely have a leaky diaphragm? Thx _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Is insulator broken? If so a piece of the bakelite may have been driven into the diaphragm by the push rod and split it. But just as importantly, why is it pinging? _________________ '73 super. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Igpoe wrote: |
Is insulator broken? If so a piece of the bakelite may have been driven into the diaphragm by the push rod and split it. But just as importantly, why is it pinging? |
It's pinging due to low fuel pressure (running lean) which I am fairly certain fuel leaking into the case is causing that. So I'm trying to figure out if it was because the fuel pump was loose (could this cause fuel leakage down into the case?) Or is the ONLY way for fuel to leak down into the case due to a leaky or punctured diaphragm?
P.S. I also thought about fuel leaking from carb down through the intake into the case, but I pulled a couple of plugs and they were not wet at all & did not smell of fuel so I eliminated that possibility. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Without the diaphragm being split I dont see how while it's running. With the motor off the needle valve attached to the float could be sticking open and leaking into the crankcase from the carb. Check your electronic fuel solenoid on the side of your carb. It's supposed to stop fuel flow when you turn off ignition _________________ '73 super. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Igpoe wrote: |
Without the diaphragm being split I dont see how while it's running. With the motor off the needle valve attached to the float could be sticking open and leaking into the crankcase from the carb. Check your electronic fuel solenoid on the side of your carb. It's supposed to stop fuel flow when you turn off ignition |
If it was leaking through from the carb, down through the intake & combustion chambers past the rings, wouldn't my spark plugs be wet and/or smell of fuel?
There is absolutely zero sign of that. The symptoms I am experiencing are:
1. Pinging after about 15 minutes of driving (but still completely driveable)
2. A bit lower engine power at same time
3. Oil level has risen about 1/4" on dipstick & seems to have a whiff of fuel smell _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Spark plug is not in the path of the slowly dribbling fuel. _________________ '73 super. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Igpoe wrote: |
Spark plug is not in the path of the slowly dribbling fuel. |
OK but how would this cause pinging? _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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I'm very sure I dont know the answer to that one. Seems your compression would have to go up somehow or the octane of your fuel would have to go down. Could your distributor also be loose? Has somebody sabotaged your car? Strange problems. _________________ '73 super. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9767 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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How many miles since your last full tune up?
Valve lash, adjust/replace points, check replace spark plugs, set ignition timing, adjust carb settings, float level check and cleaning, freshen up the oil in the filter. All these things may have an affect on the pinging.
What fuel pump are you running? A Peirburg round top, square top, or a auto parts store replacement?
IMO, a loose FP will not cause a lean condition. You may not get the float bowl completely full. But it should not cause the engine to ping. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Sorry I have no idea when I messed with any of that stuff last but the car has been running fine. The pinging just started happening suddenly, as I was driving. Had not done it before. As if something suddenly got out of whack.
I'm running a decent quality Brosol fuel pump that LOOKS just like a lot of the aftermarkets sold today but is older and better quality including having a strainer inside and a screw on top I can remove and disassemble the pump (even has the same emblem on it that the similar design Pierbergs had whatever that trapezoidal shaped emblem is.) Here's a pic
I guess I just need to pull the pump and see if there is fuel collected in the little baffles atop the pedestal underneath, or if the grease on the pivot is washed away. I went ahead and changed the oil this evening and filled it exactly to the full mark on the dispstick, then went for about a 30 minute drive, when I got back I checked the level again (after letting the car sir for about 20 minutes) and the dipstick again shows about 1/4" above the full mark. It just seems too coincidental to me that both the higher level on the dipstick and the pinging started at the same time. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1474 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Don't drive anymore until you fix that pump. fuel in oil is a great way to destroy bearings! If fuel is filling the case the only way...at least that quickly, is the fuel pump. |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7304 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Did it ping again during your latest 30 minute drive? Did the oil smell like gas again and appear to be thinned out? I sometimes find after an oil change that I have to let the car sit for a few minutes before confirming the level. Is it possible you just slightly over filled it? I doubt that an extra 1/4-1/2 quart would do any damage. Oh, and I'm assuming you tightened down the fuel pump.... _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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vamram wrote: |
Did it ping again during your latest 30 minute drive? Did the oil smell like gas again and appear to be thinned out? I sometimes find after an oil change that I have to let the car sit for a few minutes before confirming the level. Is it possible you just slightly over filled it? I doubt that an extra 1/4-1/2 quart would do any damage. Oh, and I'm assuming you tightened down the fuel pump.... |
Yes I retightened the fuel pump down. It did start pinging again on the last drive but it doesn't do it until after the engine is completely warmed up i.e. hotter than blazes. The pinging is accompanied by a noticeable drop off in power, not so bad that the car is not driveable but bad enough to where it can't pull a hill as easily.
I wouldn't say the oil has an overpowering gas smell to it but it does seem to have a whiff of gas smell. And now that you mention the oil being thinned out, after that first time it did it when I got back home it seemed to be dripping quite a bit more oil from below the case onto the ground than normal (normal is a few drops) seemed to be a sign the oil was thinned out- the bottom of the case was pretty covered in it. That's why I changed the oil and retested with another drive- however after the second drive the dripping seemed to be back to normal- go figure. Maybe just hadn't driven enough to let it do its thing again.
As soon as I get a chance I'm going to pull the pump and have a look- if the top of the pedestal block is wet with fuel or the grease on the pushrod lever has been washed off that will pretty much confirm my suspicions. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7304 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Just throwing a few ideas out here.....
I forget but do you have the thermostat in place? If so, is it opening up all the way?
I'm not very familiar w/the autostick other than the trans is a mix of manual and automatic components. Is it possible the clutch is slipping?
Dripping quite a bit of oil doesn't sound good, I've never noticed more oil drip after a long run in hot weather (have had a ton of those lately....). Bad crankshaft seal...? _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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vamram wrote: |
Just throwing a few ideas out here.....
I forget but do you have the thermostat in place? If so, is it opening up all the way?
I'm not very familiar w/the autostick other than the trans is a mix of manual and automatic components. Is it possible the clutch is slipping?
Dripping quite a bit of oil doesn't sound good, I've never noticed more oil drip after a long run in hot weather (have had a ton of those lately....). Bad crankshaft seal...? |
That's fine I'll take any ideas!
I have a t-stat but it's bad but it failed in the full open position so I don't think it's causing the engine to overheat.
No problems with tranny or clutch.
I think the simplest explanation may be the correct one here- fuel pump is starting to leak, bringing fuel pressure down a bit causing car to run lean causing pinging & lower power, oil in case is getting thinned out from fuel allowing it to seep past strainer bolts. I'll try to remove the pump this afternoon and see any signs of leaking. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Remove the fuel pump and put a piece of fuel hose on both ports and fill the hoses with gas and watch for dripping. |
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vwoldbug Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009 Posts: 1214 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Have you checked ignition timing since this started , also maybe check fuel pressure and make sure to check distributor advance and retard. |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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When I check my oil after the car has been sitting a couple of days its initially showing about a half quart overfull. I can then wipe it dry with a clean cotton cloth and put it back in for a moment and take it back out and invariably it's reading normal full level again. I cannot explain it, but I wonder if yours might do the same thing. In other words ........ check it twice. _________________ '73 super. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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Igpoe wrote: |
When I check my oil after the car has been sitting a couple of days its initially showing about a half quart overfull. I can then wipe it dry with a clean cotton cloth and put it back in for a moment and take it back out and invariably it's reading normal full level again. I cannot explain it, but I wonder if yours might do the same thing. In other words ........ check it twice. |
Yes I think I checked it about 5 times. Definitely over the full mark on the disptick. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Back to top |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Car started pinging... |
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vwoldbug wrote: |
Have you checked ignition timing since this started , also maybe check fuel pressure and make sure to check distributor advance and retard. |
Will check these asap. I completely forgot that I have a fuel pressure gauge _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Back to top |
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