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Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)?
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DevinHite
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:44 pm    Post subject: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

So I recently took my bug out and the front wheels were smoking. As well as grease coming out the 2.5” drop spindles. Which I think the grease is from overheating. But what causes the drums to be too hot to touch?
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

Brakes might not be releasing due to:
- bad master cylinder
- bad slave cylinders
- bad soft lines
- and a very common cause... misadjusted pedal stop plate, which isn't letting the master open the port to release pressure at rest.

Push the pedal tip by hand... do you have at least 1/4" play before you feel contact? If not, a pedal stop late (not rod) adjustment will fix this.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by KTPhil on Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

DevinHite wrote:
But what causes the drums to be too hot to touch?

Friction.

Either the pads are touching the rotor or the bearings are the cause.
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DevinHite
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
DevinHite wrote:
But what causes the drums to be too hot to touch?

Friction.

Either the pads are touching the rotor or the bearings are the cause.


Our suspicion is the bearings, we changed the brake lines and cylinders all around. I did notice towards the end that the bug was starting to be harder to turn or felt more stiff right before I pulled over. Then noticed grease coming out of the spindles.. but that’s probably from heat, and it has zirc fittings to refill. I’m going to take it to a VW shop to have them look at it. I know I need an alignment for sure. Damn thing swerves like I’ve had a 24 pack before driving.

My thought is the bearings. They looked great though and we greased them before reinstalling.
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:27 am    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

DevinHite wrote:
So I recently took my bug out and the front wheels were smoking. As well as grease coming out the 2.5” drop spindles.
<...>
Then noticed grease coming out of the spindles.. but that’s probably from heat, and it has zirc fittings to refill.

The wheel bearings (inner & outer) are packed with grease before they are slid onto the spindle. Once installed there is no way to add more grease.
Some ball joints and tie rod ends may have zerk fittings. These connect to the spindle assembly but adding grease to these does nothing for the wheel bearings. The spindle would need to get red hot before they transferred enough heat to the ball joints or tie rod ends to cause them to over heat and ooze grease.
Can you post a pic of where the grease is coming from?


DevinHite wrote:
Our suspicion is the bearings, we changed the brake lines and cylinders all around. I did notice towards the end that the bug was starting to be harder to turn or felt more stiff right before I pulled over.

My thought is the bearings. They looked great though and we greased them before reinstalling.

Did you re-pack the wheel bearings with new grease when you reinstalled the drums? Did you inspect them for wear? How did you tighten the spindle nuts?
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DevinHite
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
DevinHite wrote:
So I recently took my bug out and the front wheels were smoking. As well as grease coming out the 2.5” drop spindles.
<...>
Then noticed grease coming out of the spindles.. but that’s probably from heat, and it has zirc fittings to refill.

The wheel bearings (inner & outer) are packed with grease before they are slid onto the spindle. Once installed there is no way to add more grease.
Some ball joints and tie rod ends may have zerk fittings. These connect to the spindle assembly but adding grease to these does nothing for the wheel bearings. The spindle would need to get red hot before they transferred enough heat to the ball joints or tie rod ends to cause them to over heat and ooze grease.
Can you post a pic of where the grease is coming from?





DevinHite wrote:
Our suspicion is the bearings, we changed the brake lines and cylinders all around. I did notice towards the end that the bug was starting to be harder to turn or felt more stiff right before I pulled over.

My thought is the bearings. They looked great though and we greased them before reinstalling.

Did you re-pack the wheel bearings with new grease when you reinstalled the drums? Did you inspect them for wear? How did you tighten the spindle nuts?


Yes we did repack the bearings. I mean we didn’t stuff where the bearings sit, but we basically rolled the bearings in our hands with grease in a glove.

Here’s some photos.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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frenchroast
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

DevinHite wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Are you sure that grease is coming from the wheel bearing? From the picture - hard to tell for sure - it looks like it's dripping off the king pin. Possible that you have a couple things going on.
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DevinHite
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

frenchroast wrote:

Are you sure that grease is coming from the wheel bearing? From the picture - hard to tell for sure - it looks like it's dripping off the king pin. Possible that you have a couple things going on.


They are 2.5” drop spindles.. I definitely see it coming from the king pin. Could the pins be too long? Should I try to torque the bolts down again? What typically causes king pins to leak grease?

At first I thought that maybe it was just over packed on the king pins, I noticed that the steering was getting tougher when I was driving which is why I ultimately pulled over and noticed the issue.

maybe the drum got so hot it started heating up the pins, I mean the drums were so hot I couldn’t even touch them. They were literally smoking.
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rcooled
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Friction.

I'm surprised that Glenn was the only one to mention this. The most obvious cause of too-hot-to-touch brake drums is brake shoes not being properly adjusted. Very easy to check too. Jack up the front end and try rotating the wheels by hand. If the shoes are binding against the drums, you'll feel significant resistance. With properly adjusted brake shoes, the front wheels should rotate freely, with maybe just the SLIGHTEST drag being felt at different points in the wheel's rotation. After you determine that the shoes are adjusted to spec, and if the drums are still getting too hot, then you can check the other things like the push-rod clearance and the pedal stop as KTPhil suggested.

Also be sure to check that the return springs aren't broken and are attached correctly to the brake shoes. Also be sure that the shoes are properly seated in both the wheel cylinder and in the adjusters.

Correctly assembled brakes should look like this pic from the gallery ↓

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wheel bearing grease shouldn't be able to find it's way onto the inside rim like in your photos. It would first contaminate the brake shoes and result in a very noticeable loss of stopping power, and/or a pull to one side under braking. That drip is probably coming from either the king pin or the link pins.
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Last edited by rcooled on Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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downsbs1
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Driving and the front drums getting too hot to touch (smoking)? Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
DevinHite wrote:
But what causes the drums to be too hot to touch?

Friction.

Either the pads are touching the rotor or the bearings are the cause.


Ding, ding! We have a winner!

I’d first check the show adjustment, bearings, and pedal tension. I’d bet on one of these three.
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