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chippuller
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:00 pm    Post subject: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

New member here... intro and a question/problem.
I bought a 1965 VW Microbus in1994. Everything 'below the water line" had the typical rust and decay, but everything else was in surprisingly good condition. I started working on it ... fabricated new left hand inner, intermediate and outer rockers. Fab'ed right hand inner and intermediate rocker and purchased new outer rocker .... but "life got in the way" and it sat in the garage for the next 27 years!?!?
Fast forward to 2021, I am in a position to dedicate some serious time to bringing her back to life. A new condenser was all that it took to get her started! Ran and idled fine!
I started on the serious rust removal. Removed left and right hand floor sections and purchased replacements, working on replacing/repairing everything "below the water line". Making reasonably good progress (see pics in gallery 'chippuller's 65')
Now comes the question/problem... It has been starting and running fine, although that has only been to move it in and out of the garage to work on it. I have regularly let it run for 10 or 15 minutes at a time and it seemed very happy.
Last week, when I backed it out, I let it idle for about 20 minutes, with no problems, but when I went to pull it back into the garage, it wouldn't start. To make a long story short, It now has a new Bosch coil and condenser, new points (which were replaced when I first tried starting it), the points are gapped correctly, the static timing is correct. When cranking it over with ignition on I get a spark from the coil secondary to jump 1/2" to a ground, I get a decent spark with a plug removed and grounded, I am getting fuel... but it doesn't even pop!
What I don't understand is that I get continuity from the fixed to moveable point WHEN THEY ARE OPEN !!! But when I disconnect the condenser wire that continuity is broken!?!?
Any ides about what is going on.... what I am doing wrong... any ideas, suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Can you post a photo looking into the distributor? Do you have the condenser wire going to the negative side of the coil?
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Hi Barry,
Thanks for the reply.... Yes, I confirmed that the condenser is attached to the neg. terminal of the coil. Here is a pic of the distributor.
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Thanks
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Barry,
I forgot to mention..... in looking at the picture it looks like the connector from the points to the condenser is touching the distributor housing!?!? It is not. the rubber grommet on the new Bosc condenser is a bit 'fat' and is almost impossible to get fully seated in the distributor housing. I had to lever it in this far with a screwdriver resting on the distributor clamp. I didn't push it in any farther because the dist. clamp was starting to bend!??!? Shocked and was afraid of tearing the rubber grommet.
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Everything looks right. There is a tool for pushing the green plastic in but you have to pull the distributor to do it.

How is your rotor and cap? Sometimes the cap loses the little carbon follower. Make sure the green wire didn't chaff through to short against the clamp.

Do you have a static test light? If so clip it on the negative and stick the icepick into the carb spring. Have someone crank and see if it pulses.
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Hi Barry,
Thanks for the reply! ... The carbon button in in place. Also checked continuity from carbon button to the end of the coil wire at the coil end. checks fine.
Not sure I follow that last recommendation. I have a test light. You say "hook it up to the negative" (neg terminal of the coil?) and "poke the ice pick into the carb spring"...Carb spring? do you mean the throttle return spring?!?! What will that tell me? ...or is that just any ground?
Thanks again for your guidance........
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Yes negative coil. Yes any good ground.
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Well, I just went back out to the garage and took a close look... as you guessed, the the wires coming out of the grommet are riding on the distributor hold down clamp. I can't tell if they are grounding out but it sure looks suspicious!
I think I will pull the distributor in the morning. Anything I should watch out for? If I don't crank the engine, it should just drop back in the correct position, right? (Famous last words...................)
I'll let you know what I come up with in the morning.
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Got it! Will check it out in the AM!
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Well, I thought we had it...but no such luck Sad . I was going to remove the condenser to check the wires but discovered that I couldn't even get the grommet out because it was hard up against the distributor clamp! (I must have installed the condenser before I rotated the distributor to set the timing).
I pulled the distributor and sure enough, the insulation on the condenser wire was cut where it was riding on the clamp. The first thing I did was modified the clamp to allow removal and installation of the condenser! I put a temporary patch on the chaffed wire (3M Electrical insulation). reinstalled it and ran the test described in the Bentley factory manual to be sure the condenser was not shorted.
Unfortunately I have the same condition I started with... continuity across points when open but not when I disconnect the condenser wire to coil neg, a solid spark from the coil to ground and spark at a grounded spark plug....but not even a pfftt!
I don't understand why I have continuity across the open points, but what I really don't understand is if there is a short across the points, how is it triggering a spark at the coil and the plugs!?!? Confused


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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

chippuller wrote:
I don't understand why I have continuity across the open points,

If they are still connected to the coil you are reading the coil windings, the question is how many Ohms of continuity are you reading?
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Слава Україні!
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

.08 ohms.....
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Wade
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Chip,
Could the time the bus spent in storage have resulted in water condensing into the gas tank. Now, your running of the engine has resulted in the tank running low such that what you think is fuel pumping to the carbs is actually the water floating on top of the fuel? I've been in situations where my tank gets low and the water floating on the gas begins getting sucked into the intake resulting in bad running or the engine dying.

Just a though because it sounded like it just died on you one day vs being the result of something you messed with.

Regardless, good luck with your project.

Cheers,
-Wade
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FarmerBill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Gasoline floats on top of water, but bad gas could be the problem. When the ethanol in today's gas absorbs too much water you get phase separation and the alcohol/water mix sinks to the bottom of the tank. If it gets really bad, you get gasoline, ethanol/water, and water layers. Kind of like 3-2-1 Jello (whatever happened to that product?). You can drain a sample from your fuel line and look at it, but depending on the amount in the tank you may only get a sample of the bottom layer. Or if you decide that bad gas may be the culprit you can pour fresh gas with ethanol shield in the tank and rock your bus back and forth to mix things up. Or if you think it's really bad you can drain the whole tank and start fresh. Just be careful and eliminate any potential ignition points when messing with gasoline. And remember the carb bowl will be filled with bad gas too.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

chippuller wrote:
.08 ohms.....

Sounds like a coil to me.
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Wade, Bill,
Nope...new fuel, brand new "gas tank" Laughing I wasn't about to use the fuel that was in the tank for 20 years.....
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Busdaddy,
Brand new Bosch coil..... I replaced it because I thought that was the problem Mad .... I will have to check the coil winding resistance with it out of the circuit, but I am getting a half inch long zap from the coil to ground!?!?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

chippuller wrote:
Busdaddy,
Brand new Bosch coil..... I replaced it because I thought that was the problem Mad .... I will have to check the coil winding resistance with it out of the circuit, but I am getting a half inch long zap from the coil to ground!?!?

I'm not saying the coil is a problem, I meant that's a normal resistance for a coil. And obviously it works, so it what else could be the issue?, you solved the shorted condenser wire, have you made sure the distributor is engaged in the drive and actually turns while cranking?
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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FarmerBill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

How old are your plug wires? I had a Toyota hilux that did the same thing once. Just wouldn't start one day after running fine. Old plugs and bad wires was the cause.
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chippuller
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem Reply with quote

Busdaddy,
Sorry I misunderstood your original post. Yes, that's what I've been asking myself.... "What else could it be!?!?" .................
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