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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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Roger.
The metal nipple on the engine head feeds coolant to top of expansion tank.
Don't cut the plastic rings on hose(s) 22277 yet. You need a coolant return path from hose off head back to coolant pump. However, I don't know if the ABA 22277 hose will fit in the engine compartment with your "carb" engine mount angle.
What angle will the engine mount at? Is the engine lid raised?
The larger nipple outlet at manifold on head can be reduced to 1/2" to connect to heater hose going to heater core using this hose 171 121 611 E This is what I did. But, it's an old possibly uncommon hose. So, I bet you could find a Gates hose for that.
Did you get the long metal coolant manifold from the donor car? If not.....
you need a manifold to route return coolant from heater core and expansion tank back to coolant pump. I cut the OE long metal manifold and welded beads on it. The part is 1/2" x 1/2" x larger. 5/8" ? On my other ABA conversion I soldered copper pieces to form that same part but that required some custom work.
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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rogertj Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008 Posts: 505 Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:03 am Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Roger.
The metal nipple on the engine head feeds coolant to top of expansion tank.
Don't cut the plastic rings on hose(s) 22277 yet. You need a coolant return path from hose off head back to coolant pump. However, I don't know if the ABA 22277 hose will fit in the engine compartment with your "carb" engine mount angle.
What angle will the engine mount at? Is the engine lid raised?
The larger nipple outlet at manifold on head can be reduced to 1/2" to connect to heater hose going to heater core using this hose 171 121 611 E This is what I did. But, it's an old possibly uncommon hose. So, I bet you could find a Gates hose for that.
Did you get the long metal coolant manifold from the donor car? If not.....
you need a manifold to route return coolant from heater core and expansion tank back to coolant pump. I cut the OE long metal manifold and welded beads on it. The part is 1/2" x 1/2" x larger. 5/8" ? On my other ABA conversion I soldered copper pieces to form that same part but that required some custom work. |
Yes, on the head metal nipple subject, I still have to buy a 1/4" ID "T" so that it goes to the BIG T. (Are we rapping now? lol!)
The Gates 22277 spaghetti hose maybe works like a manifold I need to see if the head water outlet will clear the engine bay firewall at all. I'm praying so it clears the firewall, I don't know the exact angle the engine was sitting on but is less than 50 for sure. I must have a photo somewhere ill look for one I did not pay attention in class on that one. But thinking of it, it must fit as the oil gas recirculation black plastic insert that goes on top of valve cover barely clears the engine lid and I can close the engine lid. So Im hoping not to have any problems on that. If that's the case I'll do this configuration as the original poster did.
On
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The larger nipple outlet at manifold on head can be reduced to 1/2" to connect to heater hose going to heater core using this hose 171 121 611 E This is what I did. But, it's an old possibly uncommon hose. So, I bet you could find a Gates hose for that. |
I did manage to purchase this hose before when my "carbed" engine got internally toasted (just oil wise) for some reason the water system worked very fine but not the rings, they were toast, I mean it was only 12 years or so of use . So I guess I'll run the same configuration as I had it, same as you. its funny, I found that hose in a Mexican auto zone can you believe that? Anyways I hope I can repurpose that one on the build because I only used it like 3 months, I'll post photos later.
I couldn't get the long metal manifold that you are referring to in order to return coolant from the heater core and expansion tank back to the coolant pump but I did the same trick of the copper pipes with the fear of losing coolant back then but eventually, I had a sense of relief when the days went by and non was wasted. But maybe the 22277 spaghetti hose I could use to solve this problem and have an OEM replacement for this configuration I still don't know as I have to have the motor in the van in order to check hose by hose because I bet to you that the Mexican mechanic that did this didn't look at a Bentley when assembling my conversion before 09/30/2008 wow its been a while... didnt knew about the samba either back then...
Anyways hope for the best my friends! _________________ Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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Vanagon Nut wrote: |
The larger nipple outlet at manifold on head ..... |
Roger. Glad you understood what I meant. I worded that poorly. Should've said:
"The ~ 5/8" nipple outlet...."
rogertj wrote: |
Yes, on the head metal nipple subject, I still have to buy a 1/4" ID "T" so that it goes to the BIG T. (Are we rapping now? lol!) |
I know you're still "spit balling" ideas but since coolant will flow from nipple at head to expansion tank, will the 1/4" T and BIG T be used with other hoses to replace hose 22277 ?
If that ABA hose will fit as-is, it will provide the required path for coolant back to the pump.
Notching a "U" at firewall is easy to do.
I don't know if this will help but while looking for the diagram from the A3 Bentley, found this. Heater core is not shown but would be at top of blue path. The diagram flow looks correct to me.
One small detail not shown in the Bentley diagram is actual flow at plastic coolant manifold between pump and oil cooler. It's shown in this image:
diagram from A3. Someone else added red circles. The diagram is drawn differently than the ABA but the A3 covers a few different I4 engines:
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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rogertj Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008 Posts: 505 Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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Thanks Neil for the sketch, great dummy proof rendering!
I'll most definately use it, I'll just probably cut it to put the big T and do the necesary adjustments for the lower part, but im instaling an oil presure gauge (glowshift) so I need to see the fix to this. Probably will need the cabrio/audi tstat housing.
Yes I had the same question with those small houses to the oil cooler from water pump
This is what I have with that hose, ill see a way to repurpose it, tell me what you think. Its kind of funny we have been at it for 2 days lol!
And Im one water pump pulley short im buying that next week, by the way do you remember whats the direction it turns? I think it to the right (clockwise) as the belt that I have (no AC ABA engine) is the way it would fit
_________________ Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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I understand how long this type of thing can take. I spent a LOT of hours to figure out my custom coolant hose and power steering set up.
I agree. You'll need to alter that 22277 hose. Maybe rotate T upwards then rotate small hose from T downwards to line up hoses to oil cooler and pump? Would cutting the hose a bit shorter where it connects to head help line up the oil cooler and pump hoses?
I have an ABA on engine stand with that same type of hose. If you want, I can try various hose positions on it. I am curious.
(edited) You could use a VR coolant pump pulley and one ribbed belt to drive pump and alternator. This solution is known as the "AC delete"
Not sure if this is the thermostat housing you're thinking of but I'm using one that, I think, is similar or same as used on the Diesel Vanagon 1.6 I used thick wall marine type hose to connect to the Vanagon long pipe
I used a galvanized 1.25" m x m nipple to connect the hose to a 1.25" x 1.5" hose to long pipe. (IIRC your van is an '85 so you won't need to do that if it still has the stock 1.25" pipes). I was concerned that stress introduced by how I curved the thick wall hose might cause the plastic thermostat housing to fail but so far so good. Fingers crossed.
Looking at this image I'm reminded that I should make a nicer looking bracket for the PS reservoir! And a better method to secure that marine hose to firewall !
This shows the "AC delete" using VR pulley. Notes in yellow don't apply to that.
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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rogertj Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008 Posts: 505 Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:11 am Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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Yes Neil it gets dificult but not imposible ha! Just by seeing the images, I found that the water hose used by the original poster is smaller in ID than mine, look at the dimensions (or maybe not?):
So Ill have to either:
A: Replace my 22277 hose with the correct one
B: Buy the one mentioned by the OP and keep mine
C: Buy pieces anyways of more hose because I still need to do the plumbing for whats left short in my conversion
Or maybe ABC together _________________ Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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The hoses the OP used do look narrower but ends appear to be the correct size. That design uses less material and reduces weight.
If your 22277 hoses fit at connections, overall hose width is not an issue.
If feasible, if it was me, I'd mount the motor now then figure out cooling system design.
I'd guess you've done this already but on my first conversion, I found it quite useful to go and look at hoses my local parts supplier had. One could even take pictures of them. On my second conversion I spent a lot of time viewing the Gates catalogue that shows hose size, shape etc.
Neil.
I altered the image to show the hose shapes:
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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rogertj Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008 Posts: 505 Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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Thanks Neil Ill take some more photos once the hose routing gets done in the engine, also I'll figure out the direction the water pump spins just to be sure Im ok. _________________ Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:02 am Post subject: Re: ABA/inline coolant hose routing using VW hoses |
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rogertj wrote: |
Thanks Neil Ill take some more photos once the hose routing gets done in the engine, also I'll figure out the direction the water pump spins just to be sure Im ok. |
Facing the engine from pulley end, pump turns to the right. i.e. clock wise. Coolant goes out of the head, pump pulls it back in.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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