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bomberbob Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2015 Posts: 688 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:20 pm Post subject: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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Prepping for paint. Dry fitting the window scrapers so if I need to drill holes or something, I do it while its still primer. Bugpack 6000-11 kit. I see that inside and outside scrapers are different. What I don't see is whether I drill holes for clips to match the holes in the scraper (where the door doesn't have holes), or glue that forward section? Or glue the whole thing and toss the clips. Also the forward piece of scraper extends all the way to where the rear view mirror screws in. Where do I slice it off?
_________________ 1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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If this is the kit that has the metal strips that "slide" into slots on the rubber scrapers, and also does not have any felt on the part of the scrapers and seals that touch the window, then you're in for an adventure. Good luck drilling extra holes, as there's not enough room to even get a drill bit in there. I'll tell you how I ended up getting something I could live with, once I hear what type of product you ended up buying. I also bought my replacement one piece seals and scrapers from Aircooled.net. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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RLFD213 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 331
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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Beetlenut I bought the JBugs kit. Any advice on theirs. I tried calling and emailing aircooled and nobody responded. So I didn’t have a choice. |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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RLFD213 wrote: |
Beetlenut I bought the JBugs kit. Any advice on theirs. I tried calling and emailing aircooled and nobody responded. So I didn’t have a choice. |
Is it like the one above, where the metal strip that the clips go in comes separate from the rubber scrappers and seals? Do the edges of the rubber scrappers and seals that touch the glass have any felt on them, or are they just rubber? _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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RLFD213 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 331
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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Beetlenut the box says EMPI on it for the kit. It does have 4 metal strips that need clips. And about 10” that don’t have holes in the strip. The rubber has metal strips in it. I was thinking since the back part has a lower channel I was going to try and put a front channel in the door to keep the window in position when it goes down. |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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RLFD213 wrote: |
Beetlenut the box says EMPI on it for the kit. It does have 4 metal strips that need clips. And about 10” that don’t have holes in the strip. The rubber has metal strips in it. I was thinking since the back part has a lower channel I was going to try and put a front channel in the door to keep the window in position when it goes down. |
So are the metal strips that the clips go in bonded to the rubber, or do they come apart? Does that rubber have any felt on the edge that contacts the glass? The 10" that don’t have holes in the strip can be glued or screwed into the door metal. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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RLFD213 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 331
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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It does have felt and looks ok. If I could post a picture of them I would. I guess worst case when I get to that point if I have to order Aircooled stuff I’ll have to figure it out so they respond. |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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RLFD213 wrote: |
It does have felt and looks ok. If I could post a picture of them I would. I guess worst case when I get to that point if I have to order Aircooled stuff I’ll have to figure it out so they respond. |
If they have felt on them, and the metal strips are attached or bonded to the rubber, they are better than the ones Aircooled sells. I had to super glue the metal strips to the rubber, and buy some felt and cut it into strips and glue that the the rubber, just so the rubber seals and scrapers would not roll under when I rolled down the window! Giant PITA! _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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bomberbob Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2015 Posts: 688 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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I bought my Bugpack kit a couple of years ago, maybe they are no longer available. I guess I should consider myself lucky I did not buy the EMPI kit. Mine has felt, and the rubber and metal is integrated. mine did not come with the metal clips to hold the felt channel around the upper window, had to order those from M & T. _________________ 1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa |
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jsbeddow Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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Sorry to revive this thread from the dead, but I am finally restoring my '69 Cal-Look Bug (that was my daily driver from 1983 to 2000, parked/garaged since then). The one piece window kit scrapers at the time (1983) were never "clip-in", they were either glued or, in my case, drilled and screwed in. They had a metal strip integrated, with very thin (probably sprayed-on) felt on the inside faces, and actually weren't too bad at all functionally , compared to the many horror stories I hear about most current versions.
Now I am tasked with finding suitable replacements. Obviously, nowadays there are the so-called "glue-in" and "clip-in" kits, but who sells what brand/version, and which ones (if any) are of at least reasonable quality (again, I am hoping for an integrated/bonded metal strip and some felt padding if possible). Sure, it would be easier if the clip-in ones would work out of the box, but I'm not opposed to adding a couple of screws if needed. I can't imagine that there are more than three to four versions out there, as the market can't be that large. It sounds like the now hard to find Bugpack version was the equivalent to mine, but what else is out there? It's tough to find any useful info on any of the vendor's websites, unfortunately. |
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buguy Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 4915 Location: Port Orange, FL
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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I recently got some from Jbugs. I bought their kit in 2003, but the new ones aren't the same. I called them about it and the guy told me the other factory had burned down recently and wouldn't likely ever see them again. In mine i drilled new holes in the rubber and put the clips in to meet the holes in the door. I also glued it using 3M trim and emblem glue. I didn't put the metal strips in it. |
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bomberbob Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2015 Posts: 688 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:48 am Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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The bugpack parts are no longer available. EMPI parts are the only choice you have as far as I know. I tried three sets of the EMPI parts, and gave up. They came out looking like crap. Problems: 1. Trying to get a curve at the ends of the window is very hard. I tried making cuts with a dremel to get it to bend, still looked bad. had a set of the original scrapers (for a vent window door). Those clips go up and down. The EMPI clips go sideways. Difficult to get them to stay in. Reason may be they were not hardened, so when you try and push them in they bend and lose their retaining properties. I tried using the clips and the urethane they use for gluing windows in cars. After you succeed in getting this junk glued in your car and it dries, now you deal with what I consider excess rubber. The rubber drags on the glass. People have said use talcum, others said use Rain-X. I tried both. The window regulator struggles to lift this big piece of glass anyway, adding the friction of all this rubber does not help. I tried trimming some of the rubber back, what a mess.
I bought some other material, I actually cut the four pieces yesterday and bent the ends to fit. Now I am cleaning off all the old glue and damaged paint before I glue these in. If anybody is interested I can post some photos, I think there are so few people doing the Cal look anymore the market is gone. If I had not put so much work into these doors I would just toss them in a dumpster and buy vented doors. Reskinned, welded in new bottoms to replace the rust, and painted to match car. I am in this one piece window thing too deep to escape now. _________________ 1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa |
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jsbeddow Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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Thanks for the detailed report @bomberbob. I would love to know more about which alternative window scrapers you are now working with, and some photos of your setup would absolutely help too.
My very old "original 80's" set, (probably purchased from Johnny's Speed and Chrome, ) was quite functional, but admittedly the car has been garaged now for 20 years. When those were installed, they were a pain, as holes had to be drilled in the metal backed scrapers, and into the door jambs, then small countersunk Phillips head screws were installed, but I had not attempted to "form" or "bend" the ends, they just ran straight at each end (see photos). Yes, that made for some water leaking into the doors, but that's why there are holes drilled at the base of each door, to drain that water back to the outside. Please ignore the old, worn out felt channel around the glass, I am well aware that that part is readily available, and it is on order now.
I too am too invested in one-piece windows to want to convert back. The wife already says we have too many parts around the house, I can't imagine it would go well if I say I need to pick up a set of used doors just to scavenge the parts needed to convert back to vent wings.
By the way, some sources have suggested looking at Ghia window scrapers and adapting those. I have my doubts about that, but if you have heard anything along those lines, let me know. |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3838 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:06 am Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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To both of you guys, and especially Bob: everything you explained is the exact B.S. I went through in 1982, and I sold that car and vowed to never destroy another set of doors.
But don't lose hope, I just saw another thread around here where they linked to some guy who sells that replacement channel to revert back to vent wings. They're formed steel channels that you weld back into the doors. I can't remember for certain, there may have been two vendors. But if you search in the 58-67 and 68-up forums, I think you'll find it...and it was pretty recent, it may even be in the first few pages.
Good luck. |
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bomberbob Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2015 Posts: 688 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:35 am Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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OK I will post some photos tonight, part numbers of the material, etc. If you look at this post over in another forum, a guy on the second page used some material he got from a California hot rod shop. I took it from there. I measured the gap between the two door edges, and this material will probably not actually come in contact with the glass when its glued in. I will load up a bunch of stuff when I post tonight. Heading off to work now.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20 _________________ 1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17969 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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Keep a couple drain holes open as all VW door windows will leak water.
The wing windows do make it impossible to hang your elbow our the window comfortably! _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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bomberbob Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2015 Posts: 688 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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I figure the fact that the scrapers don't rub on the glass is OK. Thats a lot of glass that old regulator has to lift, I read aftermarket regulators are even weaker. The less friction, the better. I coated the inside of my doors with master series silver and made sure the drains are open, so water going in is not a worry. _________________ 1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa |
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bomberbob Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2015 Posts: 688 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 standard beetle, one piece windows, scraper question |
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OK someone suggested using YMR13X96 material, I can't see how that would fit, as its 13 mm wide. I used CRL YM396. I bought two 96 inch pieces, enough for two doors.
I took cardboard and traced the outline of the lower window.
Cut the material, and then formed it to the shape of the template. I used the tool I use to bend brake line, it curved it without kinking it.
width of the door gap. Narrower at the front, only 16 mm
width of the door gap with the material included
glass is 5 mm, so there is open space on both sides. Maybe rattle with the window down unless the rear part of the guide felt holds it steady.
Plan is to use the urethane that they use to glue windshields in cars (3M Windo-Weld) and glue this stuff in. No screws, just shove something in there to hold it in place up against the door, let it cure for 24 hours. If it doesn't even touch the glass and its more or less cosmetic, should not be any stresses to tear it loose. I will probably just stuff cardboard pieces in there as shims.
Oh if you go this route you have to find someone to sell it to you. I went to DK Hardware, waited 6 weeks. Hint on bending: don't try to bend it close to the end. since you have more material than you need, move a couple of inches down. Its easier to bend when you have a firm grasp of both ends. first bend was real slow as I was afraid to screw something up. Again, you have extra stuff to work with if you get the 96 inch piece. Get your two bends in the right place, then trim to fit. After that first bend it only took a couple of minutes per bend, its very easy. _________________ 1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa |
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