Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two

[crazyvwvanman]

Those are early 90s C Class wheels, not originally from a 85 300SD. Mercedes wheels get moved around so someone may well have done so.
I like those wheels and have put them on a few 2wd vans, no spacers needed with 205/70/15 tires, just long studs and correct nuts. The 7" version of those wheels may need spacers, as might other tires.

Mark

[rosszip]

[thewump]

Adding to the thread for posterity and to contribute to the 215/75 15 info that is scattered around. It IS possible to have a slightly lowered van with no rubbing, but it takes a bit of work.

I'm NOT saying I recommend this setup. I have ended up here, because I spent money going down a path and had to go through a few switches and turns to get a look that I loved based on what I'd already bought. In hindsight, for the full wheel well / chunky AT look if doing it again I'd go for a 16" wheel with ATs and a lift. All very well, but I have these wheels, and red Konis so there you go. I also LOVE these wheels so who knows.

What I CAN say for sure is that these wheels, which are typically sold to bus owners, that are 15x5.5 had absolutely no rubbing issues with the standard height on my 87 weekender. They are a 20mm offset, but at 5.5" wide, that's not going to cause an inner problem, and there was more than enough height to not cause fender rubbing at the front on turn. Fender lip to center cap middle was around 17.25" on my stock 87.

They look a bit skinny at stock height though - just like stock wheels, and aesthetic is part of the fun of vehicle ownership for me, so I tend to keep changing things until I get it where I want it.

Problems started when I added Weitec yellow springs from Busdepot. I considered the Van Cafe Carat springs but it seems like there's no other way to see what a spring does but to install it, and I didn't want to fit springs that didn't drop enough. (see note below about Carat Springs - I think I did the right thing.) The Weitecs dropped me a full 3 inches at the front, and 2 at the saggy rear. If I'd rolled the fenders, I would have had enough clearance for normal driving, but any kind of compression during a turn created rubbing.. the kind that bend the fender out. I don't think offset would have made a huge difference here.. it's just the way it is. I put on my 37mm offset spare steelie to test and it still rubbed turning into the driveway.

Here's how the van sat with the Weitecs installed out of the tox.

I loved the look, and maybe would have come up 1/2" at the front from an aesthetic perspective but even with careful driving this was going to end badly. Center cap to lip is 14.5

I took a two pronged approach to making this work.. and again, I don't necessarily recommend this unless getting this look is really important to you.

1) Spacing the front
2) Bumpstops to protect the occasional over extension.

On the spacers, there's a milled aluminum spacer picture out there somewhere that was my inspiration because I knew i wanted about 1.25" or lift, and that is too much for just shims. The cup that holds the coil in at the top needs to seat well or bad things will happen.

I've seen differing info on spacer to lift ratio. One site says 1:1.15, and someone else through a 1:2 number out there, so I wasn't sure. I decided to go with a 3/4 inch spacer. I did that on one side, and the second is a hair less, and better.

I started with a 1" HDPP cutting board and a hole cutter and ended up getting pretty creative using a polisher as a redneck lathe. It worked REALLY well and I have enough experience to work out how to do this safely, so all good.

I intentionally left the surface of that last image rough as friction with the rubber ring will further assist the lip to keep things in place.

It raised the front by between 1.25 and 1.5 inches. I guess the ratio is more than just geometry, and spring tension comes into play.. not sure.

This in itself was a good start to protect the fenders but I decided that bumpstops were a required backup. For first test, I used new bumpstops from gowest UNCUT.. full height, and I've left it light that for now because pulling suspension on and off is getting old. I could probably remove a little, but for now I'm ok with it.

For normal driving, there is no bumpstop interaction. If I brake hard I think I can feel when they come into play, but not sure. I'm sure at slow driving one wheel up on the curb they are in play. If I hit a drain across a junction at speed it's 50/50, and it's not fun if the van hits the bump stops. Kinda brutal. BUT.. in normal driving they don't come into play at all and the ride is what others say about Weitecs + Koni reds.. firm but enjoyable.

If I were to do it again, I think I'd simplify and get 3/4" board, cut the outer diameter the same (6" minus the width of the blade x 2), and cut the inner diameter at 3.5" dead because I think there is schedule 40 PVC pipe with a 3.5" O.D. I think it would be better doing that securing the pipe to the spacer and having a full 1/2" of lip. Having said that, I've driven the crap out of the van to test it, including on a dirt trail - faster than I intend to drive on rough terrain and it's seated fine and not moving.

On Carat springs, even if they had given me the same height they would be less stiff than the Weitecs + spacers so normal driving would be much more likely to hit the bumpstops which would be miserable.

In summary:

- 87 weekender
- 15x5.5 wheels ET20
- 215/75 15 BFG KOs
- Koni reds (set nearer the soft end)
- Weitec Yellow springs
- Just under 3/4" of spacer
- Uncut new gowest bumpstops

Keifer
_________________
87 Weekender

[macbuick]

Lowering springs with All Terrain tires ...
_________________
64 Traditional Cal-Look
63 Apal Jet

NEW PROJECT : 1950 PORSCHE 356 COUPE PRE A REPLICA
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=...Y#10178536

89 Golf GTI/68 Pontiac Catalina Wagon/72 Buick Skylark Pro-Touring

Daily: 2006 Dodge Ram 1500

[WetWest91]

So great...thanks Chris!

[Longboardluv]

does anyone know what it would take to make these 2018 Audi Q5 Wheels to fit a 1991 Vanagon Carat?

[bobbyblack]

thats an 18" rim?

My take on that is, look for tires appropriately rated for your vehicle in 18" rim, width semi close to the original 185 to 205 range, and rated XL 99+, or Load C or heavier.

That's your unicorn, if you can.. THEN, figure out how you are going to deal with a spare... Gets expensive putting a rear carrier on, if you have a 5th matching wheel.

After all of that get ahold of Christopher at t3technique.com for proper hardware/spacers...

Easy Peasy, right?

Good looking rim tho! Fer Sher!

-bobby
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Longboardluv]

[Mateo83]

verify hub bore and backspacing.

[Diy2k]

Has anyone thought about using wobble nuts for 114.3 wheels?

I was thinking grand marquis/crown Victoria mesh wheels would look amazing with a wide fender lip kit.
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1987 VW Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender
2012 Ford Transit Connect Xlt

[brickster]

I've got some tread left on my tires (Thunderer Ranger R101) mounted to 14" stock steelies (2WD 1984 Camper), but am looking in to upgrading to 16" wheels in the near future for more tire choices and stability.

I've quoted part of Christopher's initial post as background for my question. He states that ideal offset is 30-39mm, yet the 16" wheels offered by Van Cafe and Go Westy are 23mm. Who is correct, or am I misunderstanding some of the information?

[Christopher Schimke]

[brickster]

Thanks, Christopher. That is great information.

[Crankey]

[4Gears4Tires]

[Crankey]

Isn't there a difference ? If not then why the different terms ?

For instance I see hub rings mentioned often on an Audi bord but never on the vanagon bord
If there's air between the hub and wheel bore it seems like there's more chance of side load shift than on a wheel that fits snug and shares the load with the hub ?
Not that I know much about the engineering exactly.

[4Gears4Tires]

No, there is zero load on the hub lip. It is all taken by the bolting force. But, if you're inaccurate with putting on a non-hubcentric wheel there is a possibility you bolt it down not quite true because you bolted it in a circle, for example.

It's basically a guide for the wheel to sit on while it gets bolted down. It's better and all wheels should be hubcentric, but it's not necessary to keep the wheel on the car.

Can you imagine trying to put a tire on the car that is not hubcentric and you're using lug bolts? I would walk away.
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[Crankey]

I can totally imagine that. The T3 has both, studs for nuts and holes for bolts.
At least a 2wd van does stock.
The front end originally had lug bolts and the rear always had studs through the hub.
Yeah, it was a pain sort of. But I got a stud kit for the front when I got SA brakes.

I haven't ever bolted or nutted wheels in a circle though. I've forgotten to cinch wheels down after a brake pad replacement on a karmann ghia once though. That was exciting.


@thewump that's some dedication to stance there. Looks good with black wheels. Never liked those wheels before but seeing them in black with that setup it looks great actually.

[4Gears4Tires]

[christiancarpenter42]

Wow!! so much information here. I made it to about page 6 and figured it would be faster to just ask you experts. I'm looking at a set of Merecedes 7.5x17 with a backspacing of ET56 (I see 30-36 works but would I need 20-25 spacers to bring these out?) for my 1985 tintop. Stock suspension. the tires are 235/65/17s. Lugs look to be the same according to Wheel-Size.com and the center is 66.6 so that should work as well as the 5x112 bolt pattern. The wheels will be significantly larger and my speedo will be about 12 mph off at 70 but it already runs 5 mph fast so off by 7 won't hurt my feelings. Will these fit without rubbing? Thanks.