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Swing axle mounting
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Mexdj83
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:54 pm    Post subject: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Hey everyone, I will try and make this clear. I am cleaning up and rear end of my 59 pan meyers manx, I bought it and it had a split case swing axle that did not work and the owner put in another swing axle. As you can see in the pictures the boots will not fit as the bottom of the circle part of the swing axle is below the frame horns. Is there a mounting issue towards the front of the swing axle that needs addressing, the transmission mounts look decent. I am pretty familiar with bugs but never removed the swingaxle or ever had to align, I thought this should just bolt in.

Swingaxle code - A0071075

Thanks in advance.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

To get clearance for axle tubes and the boos you have to notch the frame horns.
I am having to do it on a Wampuskitty I am restoring.
It a work in progress and finished yet. The pictures show what done so far as the pictures show.
Your front mount is not showing what it hidden in front of it. Originally there was a cast steel part on the torsion housing. It may have been cut off.
If so you can get a 1961 and later mount in the aftermarket and weld it on.
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Mexdj83
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply, I guess I am a little confused why they would need to be notched in the first place, are swing axles that different through out the years that they dont fit in different years? Taller mounts for different years? Im still researching this topic but cant find anything super clear, I will try and take more pictures but something seems odd on the front mount area to make it sit lower.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

The split case, non synchro 1st gear transaxle set differently and the axles had the clearance to not touch the frame horns.
When a later trans was installed in a early Bug, the use of a type 2 Bus nose cone (shift housing) and hockey stick were installed so trans set level.
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Mexdj83
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

So essentially I just need to change my nose cone to a type 2 nose cone and that should give it just a little more height to clear.

What type of front mount should I use ?

Thanks
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

The whole front mount is a butcher job.... You might consider replacing the bracket on the pan and then you can use the proper nose cone and rubber mount for the later model (?) transaxle you have....

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Weld-In-Front-Transmission-Mount-Bracket-111701173-p/111-701-173.htm

Do not go with urethane mounts as they have a poor life span, stay with simple rubber mounts...
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

The whole front mount is a butcher job.... You might consider replacing the bracket on the pan and then you can use the proper nose cone and rubber mount for the later model (?) transaxle you have....

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Weld-In-Front-Transmission-Mount-Bracket-111701173-p/111-701-173.htm

Do not go with urethane mounts as they have a poor life span, stay with simple rubber mounts...
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"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
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Pajero
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Wow! those rear transmission mounts are totally shot. Looks like that end is at least a half inch lower than it should be because of that.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

To be able to give any answer to what you need to do for a front trans mount, you going to need to remove what is there. And then post pictures for anyone to be able to guide you on what needs to be done.
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Mexdj83
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Thanks everyone, looks like I will take the axle out next. Might take me a few days but appreciate the input. Will post some new pictures when I get a chance.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

This is what was on my buggy (on right) when it was torn down for complete restoration.... My pan is 61 and has late swing axle installed....

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My experience with this says part of your problem is whole front mount...
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Last edited by Dale M. on Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

This is what late model (61 and later) front chassis mount looks like BUT keep in mind the picture is with pan up side down... Ignore bracket above (in front of) trans mount it was for a front mount of skid plate I never installed at time of restore...

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And I believe this is mount the goes with 61 and later chassis bracket for your transaxle... But it would be best to verify what year your transaxle is before ordering...

http://www.vw-resource.com/transaxle.html

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Transmission-Mount-1962-65-Type-1-311-301-265A-p/311-301-265a.htm
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Even with the change to the 1961 and later front mount that weld onto the torsion housing, the frame horns really need to be clearance.
The frame horns on a early rear pan are actually taller the later pans which really does not allow enough clearance for the axle boots.
You can install the trans, without doing anything but maybe chasing oil leaks from pinched axle boot.
The pictures I posted are of the early frame horns with a later front mount welded to torsion housing so trans is sitting level.
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Mexdj83
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Thanks guys for the advice, I think mine are notched just a little. Thanks Dale for adding those pictures it makes it very clear. When I get back from out of town I will take the axle out to see what I have going on.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

To muddy the waters some...

My '58 Bug started life with a split case trans. In the early 70s, with nearly 400K miles on the car, the original trans was worn out. So I put in a tunnel case (1961-65) trans. I used an early 60s Bus nose cone. It still has the original nose mount bracket on the torsion. That same nose cone is still on the car now and I converted it to T1 IRS some 200K miles and 20 years ago. 955K miles now. As long as it was still swingaxle, I never had any interference with the boots and the yokes without ever doing anything to the yokes other than adding a self-fabricated mid strap.
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Mexdj83
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Haha yea it muddies up a little. That’s basically what’s happening here also, started with a split case but switching out to a later swing axle. I’m hoping when I take it out I can just change the nose cone and add a mid mount that it will solve the problem. I guess we will see. I’ve having a problem trying to identify my swing axle year, I posted the numbers in my first post. I e looked at the samba link with the axle years and can’t really seem to narrowing it down.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Yes the numbering system on transaxle is not easy to decode.
Looking at the flange the axle boot slips over, with the edges turn flat out by the 6 nuts holding the flange to trans. That style was first use in 1967 in the USA for only used in 1967 and 1968.
Is trans 5lug wheels or 4lug?g
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

The transmissions for in the Stickies at top of this form can help with finding out what you have.
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Mexdj83
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Changed the nose cone and test fit and looks like that did it. Thanks everyone.

Follow up question , do I use some grease in the hockey stick inside the nose cone to install, was watching a YouTube on it and. Seems like that would clog up the gear oil.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing axle mounting Reply with quote

Just a smear of grease will be good for assembly. Not a problem for the sum total of gear oil inside the trans, as long as the grease is compatible with the gear oil. Such as: Don't use synthetic grease with petroleum oil or vice-versa.
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