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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6025 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:52 am Post subject: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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As much as all of us have done modifications to our bugs, we have to remind ourselves of the simplicity of the stock engines.
I believe the bugs weight has stayed the same, so I guess the tranny also has a lot to do with it. But still pushing the same weight.
Single tiny carb, 1200 cc, cases that are one piece with the generator etc.
Did they last longer before needing a valve job ? _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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No, The cooling system was designed for 1200cc's . they overheated just like any VW motor can and need valve jobs.
The tendency for 3/4 head to run hot was the killer of many motors. Even Porsche 356's suffered from the same problems.
One common failure I have seen several times: Folks don't want to run the breather to the air filter because it fouls up the carb. Instead they vent it inside the engine compartment. The cooling fan sucks up the oil mist. The oil (and dust) coat the oil cooler eventually blocking flow completely to the 3/4 head. The motor goes down hill fast after that.
The single best advancement was the dog-house oil cooler that put cooler air to the 3/4head.
Dog-house cooler is well known to lower the head temp on that side.
Sadly, VW also upped the hp rating, so you can just as easily drive it to overheat like a 1200.
The best stock combo I have seen is a 1600cc single port (to limit HP) with a dog-house shroud.
I ran one for many years and sold it. STill running as far as I know. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6025 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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c77owen Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 454 Location: Kansas City, MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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Ohio Tom wrote: |
No, The cooling system was designed for 1200cc's . they overheated just like any VW motor can and need valve jobs.
The tendency for 3/4 head to run hot was the killer of many motors. Even Porsche 356's suffered from the same problems.
One common failure I have seen several times: Folks don't want to run the breather to the air filter because it fouls up the carb. Instead they vent it inside the engine compartment. The cooling fan sucks up the oil mist. The oil (and dust) coat the oil cooler eventually blocking flow completely to the 3/4 head. The motor goes down hill fast after that.
The single best advancement was the dog-house oil cooler that put cooler air to the 3/4head.
Dog-house cooler is well known to lower the head temp on that side.
Sadly, VW also upped the hp rating, so you can just as easily drive it to overheat like a 1200.
The best stock combo I have seen is a 1600cc single port (to limit HP) with a dog-house shroud.
I ran one for many years and sold it. STill running as far as I know. |
I built a set up like this for a customer not too long ago for his Beetle. Took his 1500 single port and rebuilt it to a 1600, added the doghouse oil cooler and a full flow remote filter set up. Everything else bone stock. It is amazing how technology that old, runs so smooth, cruises so well, and regardless of the weather or outside temps, it cruises right down the highway every single day without a single hiccup. He drives it about 1000 - 1500 miles a month! |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3438 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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This is the " what does it take to go 200K" motor, version 2, lol |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13270 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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1500SP for sure |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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The 1972 engine maybe? Right after they worked out most of the kinks from going to dual port with wide fan and dog house the year before. After that I feel like the engines slowly started to get worse because of all the extra smog and emissions control garbage they had to deal with last minute.
I wouldn't know I've only drove a '67, it lasted long but would run hot if I pushed it too hard... and that was very easy to do. The head studs pulled out the original case shortly after a head swap that was performed around 180K miles.
chrisflstf wrote: |
This is the " what does it take to go 200K" motor, version 2, lol |
We should keep this thread to actual stock engine configurations. For example, NOT a 1500SP with a dog house fan, NO full flow, etc...
NO MIXING AND MATCHING parts from different years or adding stuff that never came on a VW from the dealer, that's cheating on this one
Let's respect the question even if we don't like it. Just my friendly suggestion to everyone...not trying to comment on anything in specific here... _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 766 Location: New England
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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Erik G wrote: |
1500SP for sure |
I agree the 1500/1600SP was a tough engine. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6025 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5475 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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Dead stock in a full body Bug? I'd go with the 36 horse for long life. I never killed one and that was my first car! (and a few others over the years) I think they just made so little power that they didn't get cooked to death even run wide open throttle down the freeway for hours at a time. 40 horse engines seem to have glass cylinder heads; there was a reason for the '65 update. The 1500 SP is a good engine too. It might be the strongest if it was a current rebuild around a new dual relief case and doghouse cooling system. Hey wait -- that's what I bought for my Buggy. See, even at 1100 lb. I think the 36 horse would be too slow. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6025 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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EVfun that was the engine I was thinking about.
My thoughts and no evidence, but I thought in 194848 the first 2 bugs got into the U.S. ( I am sure there were a hell of alot more in Europe) and the aircooled engine was no longer an experiment after it was used in the War.
That engine had to be kick ass strong to take the harsh treatment and in so many variations including amphibious.
Made to run all day pedal to the metal on the Autobahn.
But no stories how long they lasted. The guys at EMPI NY Bronx got me into bugs after explaining how they were restricted and it was easy toget more hp with just some simple changes. _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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b-man Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 499 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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1966 US spec 1300.
High revving cool running little powerhouse. _________________ 1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6025 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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The early 25hp engines had aluminum cases, but the heads were weak.
Even the earlier 36hp heads were weak and refined over the years. You can see the differences in the web design between the intake and exhaust ports. So a late 36hp engine would be best |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 766 Location: New England
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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Are we counting the later Mexican/Brazilian type 1 engines or just the German built? I don't know much about the south of the border engines, but it seems like Volkswagen would have continued to "refine" them for better or worse over the years. Maybe the 1988 fuel injected Mexican 1600 is the champ? Who knows? |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1218 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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FarmerBill wrote: |
Are we counting the later Mexican/Brazilian type 1 engines or just the German built? I don't know much about the south of the border engines, but it seems like Volkswagen would have continued to "refine" them for better or worse over the years. Maybe the 1988 fuel injected Mexican 1600 is the champ? Who knows? |
I asked the question about the Mexican engine in the other thread but never got a answer , I wonder how much the Mexican taxi operators got out of the engines .
I’ve one as a spare engine , quiet a rare item in Australia , it was in a Ghia that was imported from California . Factory hydraulic lifters and spin on oil filter . With Venturi ring . The only bad thing is when the thermostats fail , the flaps remain shut . |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 766 Location: New England
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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Fun fact: The beetle was imported from Mexico to Europe, including Germany from just after the end of production in Germany until sometime in the mid 1980s. Also I was wrong about fuel injection in the Mexican beetle, they didn't get it until 1993.
I have a feeling not to many beetles escaped Mexico in one piece. They have a real "use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without" ethos down there. I would guess you would have to talk to someone who was there and drove them to find out how they held up to hard use. |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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Would adding a counter weighted crank make a stocker run any longer?
eQ _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:56 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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earthquake wrote: |
Would adding a counter weighted crank make a stocker run any longer?
eQ |
Yes, I believe it would, but how much longer would simply be a guess. The longest lasting motor would be the motor that was maintained and kept clean the best. I'm a firm believer in filtration. Change your air filtration or keep the inside of your stock oil bath clean with the proper level of clean oil. Add an oil filter to your lubrication system is a cheap, cheap extention of your engine's life. A clean fuel filter is a must for longevity and dont let your seals leak as they will allow filth to encompass your engine and absorb heat that can't be expelled! A VW running smoothly with an excellent state of tune with clean cooling fins and proper lubrication will last a long time. Laziness is the likely culprit for a premature death. _________________ '73 super. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12709 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:24 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
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For a 100% stock engine the '66 1300 wins it hands down.
The reason everyone is saying 1500 is because they never owned a 1300! Come on guys admit it, I'm correct am I not?
Also the shortest lived stock VW engine was the early 1500 found in the Bus and type 3s. It was just a factory hop up of the old 1200. Avoid those like the plague!
Starting at '71 the engines even with the new doghouse cooler were starting to suffer early demise from emissions regulations. My '71 Super Beetle needed the valves done already at 40K miles. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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