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MrPulldown Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2020 Posts: 649 Location: Truckee
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Yep always manual shift. This will allow you to ease up on the throttle and stay in gear. Always hated how the gear selector will allow you to bump it all the way down to 2nd with out depressing the button. This has happened at freeway speed when the shotgun riding passenger moves to the back. Luckily it wasn't very fast and only to 3rd.
One of the climbs that I over heated the trans was on Old Priest Grade just outside of Yosemite. Found a video. Get's to 20% grade at points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxWOqVD3eYI _________________ 2002 EVC |
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orbeamike Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2017 Posts: 150 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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MrPulldown wrote: |
Yep always manual shift. This will allow you to ease up on the throttle and stay in gear. Always hated how the gear selector will allow you to bump it all the way down to 2nd with out depressing the button. This has happened at freeway speed when the shotgun riding passenger moves to the back. Luckily it wasn't very fast and only to 3rd.
One of the climbs that I over heated the trans was on Old Priest Grade just outside of Yosemite. Found a video. Get's to 20% grade at points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxWOqVD3eYI |
I've driven on Hwy 120 over Tioga pass to Yosemite and Tuolumne Meadows from the SF bay area in my 2001 EVC a couple times. All with stock transmission setup and I had no shifting issues. I only started to monitor transmission temp last year, I look forward to going there again and see how the transmission temp behaves. |
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bcolins Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2020 Posts: 729 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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[quote="Abscate"]
bcolins wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
I documented my ATF temps pulling a 3000 pound car up and down hills in Vermont where it reached steady state temps in the low 200s with the stick system
I also pull a 3000 pound boat 400 miles six times a year with this, since 2002. |
What do you attribute your transmission longevity to when the norm seems to be failure?[/quote
The Nirm on samba is a highly non-random sample of car owners. Locally, out of 30 late T4 with AT ranging from 109-500k miles there are no AT failures
I think three of us are on Samba |
Translation please |
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samba415 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2017 Posts: 51 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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[quote="bcolins"]
Abscate wrote: |
bcolins wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
I documented my ATF temps pulling a 3000 pound car up and down hills in Vermont where it reached steady state temps in the low 200s with the stick system
I also pull a 3000 pound boat 400 miles six times a year with this, since 2002. |
What do you attribute your transmission longevity to when the norm seems to be failure?[/quote
The Nirm on samba is a highly non-random sample of car owners. Locally, out of 30 late T4 with AT ranging from 109-500k miles there are no AT failures
I think three of us are on Samba |
Translation please |
Basically I think he means the sample size of T4 owners on thesamba with transmission problems is overly weighted towards the "failed" rather "fine" functioning side of the debate. Long-term owners that have not had problems are simple not on the site in numbers. While he's giving you anecdotal info about his local group, it's telling.
I'm from the TDIclub.com VW world and have been researching to get back into a VW bus/van/Eurovan(lol) again after a long hiatus. Obviously, VW AG had a problem with their auto trans ("slush box" @tdiclub) in those years but not all of them failed (and perhaps most did not).
As with any used car purchase where you know nothing about the previous ownership, plan for the worst, hope for the best. |
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bcolins Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2020 Posts: 729 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:04 am Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Thanks! |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:04 am Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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There are a lot of EVs here in the PNW, and anecdotally I've observed that approximately 60-70% of ads on Craigslist indicate that auto vans have had or are currently having trans issues at the time of sale. I strongly suspect that a majority of these trans problems could've been resolved with some efforts far short of a full rebuild; e.g. Replace solenoids/ribbon, rebuild valve body, etc.
My original trans had a hard 1-2 gear shift issue that I think I can fix, but I found an affordable used trans, so they were swapped. When I have time I'll tear into it to investigate further. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:57 am Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Three things to add
1 Thanks for the help in transliton above - Alas , Obtuseness is my weakness
2 There is probably a big difference between T4 and T4 Campers - there is a huge load and different drive patterns on a T4 camper
3 Make no mistake - if I were buying a T4 I would evaluate the AT like any other car - cold performance, shift under load, shift under full throttle. User history, and a sample of fluid to Blackstone if I had more uncertainty. _________________ .ssS! |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3470 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
There are a lot of EVs here in the PNW, and anecdotally I've observed that approximately 60-70% of ads on Craigslist indicate that auto vans have had or are currently having trans issues at the time of sale. I strongly suspect that a majority of these trans problems could've been resolved with some efforts far short of a full rebuild; e.g. Replace solenoids/ribbon, rebuild valve body, etc.
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At any given time, around 30% of the automatic EVs for sale on the Samba have rebuilt or replaced transmissions, or transmission issues declared in the ad. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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samba415 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2017 Posts: 51 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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While I'm not going to argue against talking about transmissions and timing chains and "best practices", it's important to realize these issues don't define the T4 necessarily. There are perfectly good VW vans out there, just.... do your research on the platform and then your homework on the individual van you want. Flaunt that advice at your own risk, and understand that "VanLife" is not so simple. _________________ Old stable: '63 Baja, '69 Square, '72 Bug, '65 & '67 Samba, '73 412 wagon & 2dr 4spd
Current: '04 Golf TDI, '03 Weekender |
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pdebarber Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2021 Posts: 4 Location: CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Hello newbie here. I recently bought a 2000 EVC with 150k from the original owner. No transmission issues, so far, however I'm definitely interested in adding a cooler as I plan to do a good bit of mountain driving. Here's my question: why do the aftermarket (air/trans fluid) coolers eliminate the factory (engine coolant/trans fluid) coolers? Wouldn't it make sense to keep the factory cooler and simply add in series the aftermarket cooler, essentially increasing the cooling capacities by having two coolers working to keep the trans fluid cool? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:43 am Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Remember it heats as much as it cools. The Stock system exchanges heat with the coolant, which is sitting at about 90C, regulated by the thermostat. The ATF temperature can easily go below thst if it isn’t working hard in town traffic.
A modern transmission wants a specific viscosity of fluid to operate smoothly, so the design controls the temperature if the ATF more tightly than the good old days of the Hydramatic _________________ .ssS! |
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MrPulldown Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2020 Posts: 649 Location: Truckee
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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pdebarber wrote: |
Hello newbie here. I recently bought a 2000 EVC with 150k from the original owner. No transmission issues, so far, however I'm definitely interested in adding a cooler as I plan to do a good bit of mountain driving. Here's my question: why do the aftermarket (air/trans fluid) coolers eliminate the factory (engine coolant/trans fluid) coolers? Wouldn't it make sense to keep the factory cooler and simply add in series the aftermarket cooler, essentially increasing the cooling capacities by having two coolers working to keep the trans fluid cool? |
The OE cooler also acts like a warmer. Good for cold temps to get the ATF up to temp faster. Engine coolant warms up faster than ATF (I think). That is why it is super important for an aftermarket ATF cooler has it's own thermostat.
But on the down side the ATF can only get as cool as the engine coolant. ATF shouldn't get above 200 F but engine our engine coolant easily gets above 200. I think I have read accounts of around 250. The temp gauge on my van never fluctuates from 190. I believe the gauge is more of an idiot light, that only shows higher when a threshold is exceeded. _________________ 2002 EVC
Last edited by MrPulldown on Fri May 14, 2021 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EurovanPete Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2021 Posts: 13
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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New guy here, new to me eurovan owner. But I’m not new to VAG products. My van has 146k miles on it it’s lived all over from Denver to Seattle to Portland and Boise. It has no aftermarket cooler but has a perfect maintenance record from euro Indy shops and the dealership. I plan to install a cooler it’s a weekender that I plan to take all over. I’m one that thinks it’s probably going to be fine but also I don’t believe Volkswagen is infallible. A clear sign of this is when “lifetime” is used for a fluid that is highly stressed. There are plenty of things that other manufacturers do better and plenty of things the aftermarket can do to make them better. An aftermarket cooler with a thermal bypass shouldn’t let coolant through the cooler if the atf temp drops. There are probably bypass’ that could be found with higher bypass temperatures not the typical 80degree tru cool bypass.
Last edited by EurovanPete on Sat May 15, 2021 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MrPulldown Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2020 Posts: 649 Location: Truckee
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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EurovanPete wrote: |
New guy here, new to me eurovan owner. But I’m not new to VAG products. My van has 146k miles on it it’s lived all over from Denver to Seattle to Portland and Boise. It has no aftermarket cooler but has a perfect maintenance record from euro Indy shops and the dealership. I plan to install a cooler. I’m one they thinks it’s probably going to be fine but also I don’t believe Volkswagen is infallible. There are plenty of things that other manufacturers do better and plenty of things the aftermarket can do to make them better. An aftermarket cooler with a thermal bypass shouldn’t let coolant through the cooler if the atf temp drops. There are probably bypass’ that could be found with higher bypass temperatures not the typical 80degree tru cool bypass. |
I think that if your van is not a camper, and you do regular drain and fills of the trans with quality synthetic ATF, you shouldn't need an aftermarket cooler unit. _________________ 2002 EVC |
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orbeamike Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2017 Posts: 150 Location: California
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Go Westy's article and some other places reference Eurovan ATF as lifetime fluid. The owner's manual of my 2001 EVC states 40K change intervals, clearly not "lifetime".
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pdebarber Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2021 Posts: 4 Location: CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: Re: suggestions for transmission cooler |
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Following up here on my initial post. I went ahead an purchased the trans cooler from German Transaxles. I'm reasonably "mechanical". Any estimates as to how much time it takes to do the install? From watching the Tx pigeon poptop heaven youtubes, I'm guessing 3 hours?? |
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