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Brian Eis Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 146
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:50 pm Post subject: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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I own a 1952CC split that is the sister car to the split owned by Jerry Seinfeld that was used in his show. Both cars were imported in 2002 and sold by Hiram Castro in Orlando Florida. Jerry bought one and i bought the other. Both are 1952 crotch cooler split window beetles from belgium. I sold most of the parts but the car still retains its numbers matching body and pan in 100% rust free condition. It also still retains its original fenders, OG doors, the OG 3 tab hood, deck lid, etc. Its never been hit front or rear and i have all the original sekurit glass. Id like to know how i should appraise it or perhaps consider preparing it for offer to someone else. I know we dont discuss prices here, but this car presents an interesting provenance. Its never been titled or tagged or driven on US roads. I have the original title written in German. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! The pic is of the car in Hirams Garage in 2004. Notice it has an oval fender. That was replaced with the OG fender Hiram had in his attic that i later reattached. The reason it was never driven is because it had no brake cylinders when imported.
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disneyherbie Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2006 Posts: 363 Location: Mercer, PA
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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My friend Clayton Capps in Texas owned Jerry's I believe and he's still got a file full of the original paperwork on the car. I'll direct him to this thread... |
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Wiggy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003 Posts: 6601 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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disneyherbie wrote: |
My friend Clayton Capps in Texas owned Jerry's I believe and he's still got a file full of the original paperwork on the car. I'll direct him to this thread... |
Clayton imported the car from Belgium, sold the car to Dustin Howell, who sold it back to Clayton. I bought it from Clayton. I sold it to Hiram, who restored it and sold it to Jerry. _________________ Kevin "Wiggy"
My 58 Ghia Vert
My 51 Split 11G
My 57 Deluxe
My 56 Oval |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6179
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Wiggy wrote: |
I sold it to Hiram, who restored it.. |
such a shame _________________ drive your split. |
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Brezelmeister Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2017 Posts: 61 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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I really don´t understand what the " interesting provenance" would be regarding this car? |
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Bub Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 1151 Location: Central Washington
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Brezelmeister wrote: |
I really don´t understand what the " interesting provenance" would be regarding this car? |
Apparently, or so the story goes, a comedian bought one what was like this one.
Alex Trebeck once complimented one of my old 356's when I was parked outside his ranch in So Cal.
Similar thing, it adds both horsepowers and infinity moar dollars. _________________
hitest wrote: |
Had a girlfriend once who shall we say, nearly arrived at the mere sight of a semaphore in action- easy to please she was... |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7935 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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surely we need to see photos of the car as it is today, not 2004, to give an opinion? _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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52brezelfenster Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2005 Posts: 761 Location: OR
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Wiggy wrote: |
disneyherbie wrote: |
My friend Clayton Capps in Texas owned Jerry's I believe and he's still got a file full of the original paperwork on the car. I'll direct him to this thread... |
Clayton imported the car from Belgium, sold the car to Dustin Howell, who sold it back to Clayton. I bought it from Clayton. I sold it to Hiram, who restored it and sold it to Jerry. |
Kevin nailed the timeline. |
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Brian Eis Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 146
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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I would have thought the relationship would be relevant to the vehicles provenance. I would have thought as VW enthusiast/experts you guys would appreciate it. Help me out if you don't think its of interest or relevant to the vehicles history... or just continue to slam a brother |
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Brezelmeister Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2017 Posts: 61 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Brian Eis wrote: |
I would have thought the prelationship would be relevant to the vehicles provenance. I would have thought as VW enthusiast/experts you guys would appreciate it. Help me out if you don't think its of interest or relevant to the vehicles history... or just continue to slam a brother |
To be honest I´m struggling to grasp what provenance and relationship you refer to?
And what do you mean by "sister car" ? |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69807 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Brian Eis wrote: |
I would have thought the relationship would be relevant to the vehicles provenance. I would have thought as VW enthusiast/experts you guys would appreciate it. Help me out if you don't think its of interest or relevant to the vehicles history... or just continue to slam a brother |
My comments/opinion, not trying to be a jerk here...
I think it's interesting to know that they were both imported at the same time but as far as history or increased value, I'd say it's $0 extra value unless there is more to it.
If there is something more like they were both originally owned by the same family or the same company and/or they had some specific history together, that would be interesting and maybe of some value.
I bought 3 Buses that were all owned by the same man.
He would buy one, drive it for years, then park it in his yard when he got a newer model.
I thought it was neat he still had them all but I didn't think any of them had any increased value because of that history. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Brian Eis Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 146
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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I sat with Hiram in his kitchen 17 years ago when i purchased this car. He told me the story about how his father imported (2) - 1952CC splits from Belgium. He said that he soon regretted selling the split that would eventually become jerrys car because it had the OG 25hp engine. He sold me my split because it didnt have the four bolt wheel cylinders (or any at all) and that it had a spot of rust (later repaired) on the passenger door. In addition, my split had a 1959 36hp engine unoriginal to the car. He exclaimed to me that he lamented about selling the other split (Seinfelds) and he showed me cars he built that made the cover and feature cars of Hot VW magazine. The story Hiram conveyed to me in person is that his father had the cars imported from Belgium from the same seller. He went on to say that it was very challenging to get the cars imported (both in 1 shipping container) as they sat for a long time in transit and held up at the port authority for an extended period of time. Both titles were in a language referred to “Swiss-German” which is a hybrid language commonly used in Belgium. He also told me that is was difficult to have Jerrys car title translated so that it could be sold to the U.S. market. Meanwhile, the car i have is still with its original Belgium title. When we completed the sale, Hiram made me a copy of his florida driver license, a bill of sale and later sent me a new set of 4 bolt wheel cylinders so that i could drive the car to shows. Because i never translated the title, its been a trailer queen and garage kept. Recently i prepared this car on a rotisserie in efforts to repaint it. I can post pics if anyone is interrested. Thanks to everyone who participated and i encourage all of you to please keep this chat friendly. Thanks again! |
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Mr. OGPaint Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010 Posts: 823 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Cool story, ads no financial value to the car. _________________ https://instagram.com/mr.ogpaint
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Patrick Hall |
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Wiggy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003 Posts: 6601 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Brian Eis wrote: |
I sat with Hiram in his kitchen 17 years ago when i purchased this car. He told me the story about how his father imported (2) - 1952CC splits from Belgium. He said that he soon regretted selling the split that would eventually become jerrys car because it had the OG 25hp engine. He sold me my split because it didnt have the four bolt wheel cylinders (or any at all) and that it had a spot of rust (later repaired) on the passenger door. In addition, my split had a 1959 36hp engine unoriginal to the car. He exclaimed to me that he lamented about selling the other split (Seinfelds) and he showed me cars he built that made the cover and feature cars of Hot VW magazine. The story Hiram conveyed to me in person is that his father had the cars imported from Belgium from the same seller. He went on to say that it was very challenging to get the cars imported (both in 1 shipping container) as they sat for a long time in transit and held up at the port authority for an extended period of time. Both titles were in a language referred to “Swiss-German” which is a hybrid language commonly used in Belgium. He also told me that is was difficult to have Jerrys car title translated so that it could be sold to the U.S. market. Meanwhile, the car i have is still with its original Belgium title. When we completed the sale, Hiram made me a copy of his florida driver license, a bill of sale and later sent me a new set of 4 bolt wheel cylinders so that i could drive the car to shows. Because i never translated the title, its been a trailer queen and garage kept. Recently i prepared this car on a rotisserie in efforts to repaint it. I can post pics if anyone is interrested. Thanks to everyone who participated and i encourage all of you to please keep this chat friendly. Thanks again! |
For the sake of preserving the provenance of Jerry’s car, Hiram did not import the car. Clayton Capps did (from Walter demulder in Belgium) and I don’t think Clayton owned the car you are considering selling. I sold Jerry’s car to Hiram. At best, some guy named Hiram owned two split window beetles from Belgium. That’s about it. _________________ Kevin "Wiggy"
My 58 Ghia Vert
My 51 Split 11G
My 57 Deluxe
My 56 Oval |
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Brian Eis Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 146
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Here is a copy of the BOS from Hiram for your consideration with this claim. I would appreciate it very much if Kevin would consider not participating any further with this thread because he has escalated it beyond a friendly gentlemen's conversation and frankly is being counterintuitive to the discovery of the history of this car. Thanks again to everyone who has chimed in with useful info that will help me resolve the curious case of this split beetle. Cheers!
P.S. note that it states “1951” which we later discovered was either a typo or an error because the car is actually a late Oct 1952 pre-zwitter. Thanks!!
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Brian Eis wrote: |
I own a 1952CC split that is the sister car to the split owned by Jerry Seinfeld that was used in his show. Both cars were imported in 2002 and sold by Hiram Castro in Orlando Florida. Jerry bought one and i bought the other. Both are 1952 crotch cooler split window beetles from belgium. I sold most of the parts but the car still retains its numbers matching body and pan in 100% rust free condition. It also still retains its original fenders, OG doors, the OG 3 tab hood, deck lid, etc. Its never been hit front or rear and i have all the original sekurit glass. Id like to know how i should appraise it or perhaps consider preparing it for offer to someone else. I know we dont discuss prices here, but this car presents an interesting provenance. Its never been titled or tagged or driven on US roads. I have the original title written in German. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! The pic is of the car in Hirams Garage in 2004. Notice it has an oval fender. That was replaced with the OG fender Hiram had in his attic that i later reattached. The reason it was never driven is because it had no brake cylinders when imported. |
i'd take that oval shape driver side horn grill off and install a round one - that would make your split look like family - never been hit - we NEVER hit our son either - that makes for everlasting love - who is Seinfeld? z
_________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Brezelmeister Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2017 Posts: 61 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Just as I thought.
Jerome Allen Seinfeld´s sister Carolyn Liebling never owned this car.
In fact there is no connection to Mr Seinfeld or even Elaine Marie Benes at all.
A sister or brother car is a car with chassis or body numbers next after each other.
So I guess it all boils down trying to profit of a connection that doesn´t excist.
It´s a pretty nice ordinary split with a ordinary history.
Good luck sorting it out. |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6179
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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no one is "slamming a brother" by saying the car has no provenance...because it just doesn't. This car has nothing to do with the car Seinfeld happened to own.
obviously by trying to attach this car to a very famous person, you are trying to increase its value, or at minimum, its appeal to future buyers.
sorry Brian, you have a nice original, but otherwise unremarkable split beetle
oh and by the chassis number, you car is July of 1952, not October _________________ drive your split. |
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Wiggy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003 Posts: 6601 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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Brian. Please read. If I understood you correctly you are saying that Hirams dad imported two splits from Belgium, the sand car pictured and the azure blue split that was restored by Hiram and sold to Seinfeld. I have no idea how the sand car pictured came to the states nor do I care. All I am saying is that the azure blue car that Seinfeld has was NOT imported by Hiram or his dad because I sold it to Hiram. That simple. I have all of the backup from that car from being in Belgium to when it was sold to Hiram. Not sure why you are getting all bent out of shape. I am simply trying to make sure there is no confusion about Jerry’s car because the provenance of a car is important to some people and what you are saying about that car is just not accurate, unless I misunderstood. Just because Hiram said something at a kitchen table doesn’t make it so.
If I misunderstood your point i apologize. _________________ Kevin "Wiggy"
My 58 Ghia Vert
My 51 Split 11G
My 57 Deluxe
My 56 Oval |
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Brian Eis Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 146
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Seinfeld Sister Split |
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1. It was aforementioned the OG fender (stored safely in Hirams attic) was received and replaced post sale. The oval fender was removed. The OG fender needed minor rust repair prior to reinstall.
2. My end game was not to “profit” per sale from a farce claim. When i coined “sister split” it was in regards similar to what Everett mentioned, in that if the 2 cars were sourced from the same seller overseas. I could have easily said “brother” or cousin car. Regardless, the goal was merely to identify the HISTORY of the split. Just that.
3. Im disappointed at the plethora of rude and diminishing remarks I've received here. I thought this to be the group it once was. A group of fellow VW enthusiasts and curators who would help a fellow enthusiast track down the story of their restoration project. Instead, its revealed that youre a group of face book esq egos that quickly shun any notion of prosperity for other members.
Lastly, i lament my attempts to exchange considerate reciprocity with this group. If i were the moderator of the page, i would reconsider the negativity that has been allowed to manifest here. Id scratch my head with thoughts of how to make it a more positive place where volksaholics can source encouragement and helpful resource. |
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