| Author |
Message |
EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:56 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
 |
|
| oprn wrote: |
For a 100% stock engine the '66 1300 wins it hands down.
The reason everyone is saying 1500 is because they never owned a 1300! Come on guys admit it, I'm correct am I not? 
Also the shortest lived stock VW engine was the early 1500 found in the Bus and type 3s. It was just a factory hop up of the old 1200. Avoid those like the plague!
Starting at '71 the engines even with the new doghouse cooler were starting to suffer early demise from emissions regulations. My '71 Super Beetle needed the valves done already at 40K miles. |
I don't think its the 1300. It is a good engine but you get the longer stroke of the 1500 and the lower gearing from the 1200. I see no reason in its construction that it will rev any better than a 1500 but it is going to have to in stock trim. The reduction in power, compared to a 1500, may contribute to its ability to handle WOT operation better.
I would agree, I haven't heard anyone say nice things about those early style 1500 engines. I've never owned one because they weren't installed in Bugs. They may be the tarnish on the 1500's reputation and so the reason people think better of the 1300.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:51 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
What about the early emissions equipment caused problems for the longevity of the 1600? Did they cause it to run hotter? Leaner? Thin out the oil? Something else?
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Igpoe
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019
Posts: 853
Location: South Boston, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
To some degree the availability of quality points, plugs, distributors, carburetors, et cetera is becoming a limiting factor on whichever engine we have in our air cooled cars
_________________
'73 super. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
&Dan
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008
Posts: 1784
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
| The original 40-Horse in my '61 Beetle is a few thousand shy of 100,000, case never split, uses no oil. It's a trooper. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
| EVfun wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
For a 100% stock engine the '66 1300 wins it hands down.
The reason everyone is saying 1500 is because they never owned a 1300! Come on guys admit it, I'm correct am I not?
Also the shortest lived stock VW engine was the early 1500 found in the Bus and type 3s. It was just a factory hop up of the old 1200. Avoid those like the plague!
Starting at '71 the engines even with the new doghouse cooler were starting to suffer early demise from emissions regulations. My '71 Super Beetle needed the valves done already at 40K miles. |
I don't think its the 1300. It is a good engine but you get the longer stroke of the 1500 and the lower gearing from the 1200. I see no reason in its construction that it will rev any better than a 1500 but it is going to have to in stock trim. The reduction in power, compared to a 1500, may contribute to its ability to handle WOT operation better.
I would agree, I haven't heard anyone say nice things about those early style 1500 engines. I've never owned one because they weren't installed in Bugs. They may be the tarnish on the 1500's reputation and so the reason people think better of the 1300. |
early "1200" 1500. Don't tell it that it needs avoided lol
but this is a type 1 thread. Yes I have run a 1300 type 1 and yes a 1500 type 1 is better. More power, same revs, cant over rev, can't really overheat. The idiot book guy liked the 1300 the best but that was written before he had a 1500 LOL. 1300 was the first to have cam bearings right?
I love 36hp motors but I think the 1500sp was tougher and more power |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6032
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
This as to due with all the engines. Lets talk general Bug design. All the bugs weighted the same ( I would think ) and it was designed to be the Peoples car.
Could fit 4 pretty German guys weighing, I will pick a general weight of 160 to 180. That most likely will be the same till they stopped making them.
My point, First Gear, as we know we get about 2 feet and shift to second.
Obvious reason, 2nd was not going to get those guys moving.
So was the gearing any different thru the years, the 1200 had to do the same moving job as the 1600's.
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6032
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kpf
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 853
Location: California, US
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
The weight, gearing, and top speeds did change over the years. The weight went from around 1,600 lbs to around 1,900 (sedans). I don't have any numbers for the gearing, but you can check the owners manuals or other documentation.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
36 horse ran 2950 rpm at 100 kph.
40 horse and 1300 ran 3150 rpm at 100 kph.
1500 Bugs ran 3000 rpm at 100 kph.
Late US spec Bugs ran about 2950 rpm at 100 kph.
Late Karmann Ghias ran about 2850 rpm at 100 kph.
Type 1 gearing did change a little over the years. In the '80's we took nice stock 40 horse Bugs, lowered the front a little, replaced the heavy bumpers with aluminum t-bars and replaced the engine with a 1600 (or more if we could afford it.) Lighter, lower gearing, and all the power VW offered. 
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6032
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
| EVfun wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
For a 100% stock engine the '66 1300 wins it hands down.
The reason everyone is saying 1500 is because they never owned a 1300! Come on guys admit it, I'm correct am I not?
Also the shortest lived stock VW engine was the early 1500 found in the Bus and type 3s. It was just a factory hop up of the old 1200. Avoid those like the plague!
Starting at '71 the engines even with the new doghouse cooler were starting to suffer early demise from emissions regulations. My '71 Super Beetle needed the valves done already at 40K miles. |
I don't think its the 1300. It is a good engine but you get the longer stroke of the 1500 and the lower gearing from the 1200. I see no reason in its construction that it will rev any better than a 1500 but it is going to have to in stock trim. The reduction in power, compared to a 1500, may contribute to its ability to handle WOT operation better. |
The 1300 has the same 69mm crankshaft and bottom end as the 15/1600s. And no it did not rev better, I did not say that and do not believe that. It was also only 3 HP less than the 1500 by the way with it's 40 HP heads and cylinders. I find that interesting, a 10 HP jump with only a 100cc change...
I would be interested to hear how opinions on how the 1300 DP, as compared to the 1300 SP we had, stood the test of time in Europe where it was available for many more years than it was here.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
| oprn wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
For a 100% stock engine the '66 1300 wins it hands down.
The reason everyone is saying 1500 is because they never owned a 1300! Come on guys admit it, I'm correct am I not?
Also the shortest lived stock VW engine was the early 1500 found in the Bus and type 3s. It was just a factory hop up of the old 1200. Avoid those like the plague!
Starting at '71 the engines even with the new doghouse cooler were starting to suffer early demise from emissions regulations. My '71 Super Beetle needed the valves done already at 40K miles. |
I don't think its the 1300. It is a good engine but you get the longer stroke of the 1500 and the lower gearing from the 1200. I see no reason in its construction that it will rev any better than a 1500 but it is going to have to in stock trim. The reduction in power, compared to a 1500, may contribute to its ability to handle WOT operation better. |
The 1300 has the same 69mm crankshaft and bottom end as the 15/1600s. And no it did not rev better, I did not say that and do not believe that. It was also only 3 HP less than the 1500 by the way with it's 40 HP heads and cylinders. I find that interesting, a 10 HP jump with only a 100cc change...
I would be interested to hear how opinions on how the 1300 DP, as compared to the 1300 SP we had, stood the test of time in Europe where it was available for many more years than it was here. |
1300DP was a tax/insurance rate driven motor. I'm sure there were lots of people that upgraded to 1500/1600 P's and C's and didn't tell anyone, especially when the 1300 stuff got scarce
I brought up the "revs" because that's what the idiot book lovers quote. I don't believe it either |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
A little racing history . In sixties VW backed teams in the East African Safari Rally , Okrasa cut open stock exhausts and fitted equal length pipes etc , sort of cheating  . They had success with the 1300’s but when the 1500 came out they had issues with over heating because of dust build up in the cylinder fins and then pulled the factory support for the event .
It was all in a great article on line that I can no longer find !
My connect with these funny little cars started there , my Dad worked at the dealership , Cooper Motors . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6032
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
How about Formula Vee Racing here in the states when 36 hp motor ran the cars.
A friend was a racer and as you guys may know, the engine had to be stock except for exhaust. So all the work was porting and polishing and balancing, and shaving weight on engine parts any way the could. He showed me lightened lifters.
Actually I think the Super Vee racers used the 36 hp lifters because they were lighter.
That reminds me of building a boat in a bottle, intensive work to get that extra
HP.
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:43 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
36 HP lifters would be tough to use in any other engine. They were attached to the push rod, did not rotate and had a flat side that ran against a guide block in the engine case. They wore quite quickly and had to be replaced often if I recall correctly. That is what I remember in the couple of 36 HP engines we had apart.
Hence the old saying that a 36 HP engine will last a lifetime with a bushel basket of pushrods.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:31 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
| here is my two cents on what vw air cooled motor was the most reliable . having worked at a vw dealer ship in the early 1970s . the reliable of any air cooled motor depends mostly on the driver . i have seen 40hp 1300 1500 and 1600 motors .go from 80,000 to 100,000 miles . mostly driven buy older people . like little old ladies . and men . they all ways had there oil changed on time and there valves adj. and tune ups done on time .most of the younger people that drove vw bugs did not have a lot of money to spend on oil changes and tune ups they drove there vw bugs till they stopped running lol lol if i was to pick a motor that was the best air cooled motor to go to 100,000 miles it would be between a 1966 1300 and the 1967 1500 motor . back in the 1960s and they ran the longest . people would trade them in with 60,000 miles to 85,000 miles on them . as i said it all depends on the driver and how a driver took care of his vw bug just my two cents .spencerfvee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6032
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:50 am Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
I agree with Spence, on that one. My father and I back in the 60's and 70' hunted for bugs from all over, junk yards etc. when I lived in the Bronx.
We built station cars, slapped together engines , forget about heat, they not could get heat due to the short trip to the train or bus stations. In the winter most did not reach running temp.
A blown head, no problem grab one from the junk pile and if it fit that was the extent of the repair. Talk about reliability, never a complaint. They started and ran for years. Considering they only went a few miles day
Parking was Limited and people parked by Sound. Backed up till they hit you, and forward till they hit you again.
They did not care what the bug looked like, just that they started.
Notice my bug in front of the Intrepid Aircraft carrier in NYC, I made 1" thick steel bumper guards front and rear, that I removed to car shows.
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| This is the " what does it take to go 200K" motor, version 2, lol |
lol thats what i was gonna say the first one just wasnt good enough lol.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: What T-1 engine -1948 to end, is most reliable & last longest |
|
|
| Erik G wrote: |
| 1500SP for sure |
which one
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6032
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
