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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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 Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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I thought about posting a new thread but I want to continue this because hopefully it gets solved and can help someone in the future!
I've tried everything you guys have suggested above and my 78 FI Beetle has passed everything electrical. Ignition switch tested ok, starter is good, battery is good, car has fuel.
A neighbour came over and helped me out today and upon listening, he said "it seems like it's not getting fuel.." which made me think- maybe that's my issue...
Where would you start with a fuel issue on a FI? |
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Paul Windisch
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2009
Posts: 2546
Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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First start at the tank, making sure the outlet isn't plugged.
Check that the fuel pump runs. If it runs, you should check the fuel pressure it is producing with a fuel pressure gauge.
Those are the first two things to check.
_________________
*ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
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MAHLE Service Solutions
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| Get a can of starting fluid and spray some in the intake, if the car starts then quits 15 sec.s later it's a fuel issue. If you have an inline filter change it. Make sure your points are gapped 0.016" as the phoenalic piece that opens and closes the points wears down closing the gap. |
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| Starbucket wrote: |
| Get a can of starting fluid and spray some in the intake, if the car starts then quits 15 sec.s later it's a fuel issue. If you have an inline filter change it. Make sure your points are gapped 0.016" as the phoenalic piece that opens and closes the points wears down closing the gap. |
I'll start with the intake to ensure it's a fuel issue: is this just removing the intake boot and spraying down the throttle body? |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| waller wrote: |
| Starbucket wrote: |
| Get a can of starting fluid and spray some in the intake, if the car starts then quits 15 sec.s later it's a fuel issue. If you have an inline filter change it. Make sure your points are gapped 0.016" as the phoenalic piece that opens and closes the points wears down closing the gap. |
I'll start with the intake to ensure it's a fuel issue: is this just removing the intake boot and spraying down the throttle body?
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Yes |
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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Well that’s the problem! A bit of fuel in the intake and it briefly started up.
Now I have to figure out where the issue is.. |
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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Well that’s the problem! A bit of fuel in the intake and it briefly started up.
Now I have to figure out where along the line the issue is.. |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| Look carefully at all the wires to the FI is all I can help on FI motors. It could be a FI Question thread which would draw in members with that background. Or buy the Orange Bently Manual (Amazon) as it will have tests for FI and all the other info for your bug. |
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VW_Jimbo 
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9960
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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Is there a white wire connected to the negative (1) side of the coil? Many people forget to plug this back into place.
After that, knowing the car will run on carb cleaner or some other accelerant.
If you turn the key on, can you hear the fuel pump motor run? You should not, but sometimes previous owners bypass stuff). If not and with the key still on, go to the air flow meter and open the flap just half way, with your finger. Can you hear the fuel pump now. If not, get a rag and socket to hold the air meter open and go around to the front to listen.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| If not and with the key still on, go to the air flow meter and open the flap just half way, with your finger. Can you hear the fuel pump now. If not, get a rag and socket to hold the air meter open and go around to the front to listen. |
I’ve looked up the AFM and the images I see (a black cover) is not what I have. Do I have a different version?
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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And I also found this underneath the gas tank. It appears
To be an electric fuel pump? Maybe I should start here, how do I test it?
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9960
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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Reread my last post. Then go test for the fuel pump to run.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| Hi Jimbo- I just don’t seem to have the same AFM that others have with the black box. Where is it in my pic? |
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| Hi Jimbo- I just don’t seem to have the same AFM that others have with the black box. Where is it in my pic? |
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ach60
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001
Posts: 4139
Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| waller wrote: |
| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| If not and with the key still on, go to the air flow meter and open the flap just half way, with your finger. Can you hear the fuel pump now. If not, get a rag and socket to hold the air meter open and go around to the front to listen. |
I’ve looked up the AFM and the images I see (a black cover) is not what I have. Do I have a different version?
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Yes you do, the black cover is on the bottom.
You need to buy and run the FI test sections of the Robert Bentley Manual for 71-79 VW Beetles
Do not replace Parts unless they are bad or this will happen to you
Water Cooled VW going Nuts
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Good Luck
Al |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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Are there electrical wires going to this thing? I can't tell from the photo but it actually looks more like a fuel FILTER to me, which could still be the source of your problem if it's clogged up (or was put on backward)
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9960
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| waller wrote: |
| Hi Jimbo- I just don’t seem to have the same AFM that others have with the black box. Where is it in my pic? |
Your air box has the panel on the bottom. No big deal. Remove the inlet boot (the one from the air filter) and run the test.
Also, here is a great reference for you. Read it! Knowledge is power. Reading is how you acquire that knowledge, retaining it takes physical practice. Do it enough and it becomes second nature!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/afc_f...r_1974.pdf
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9960
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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Did you ever get any further?
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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waller
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| Did you ever get any further? |
I appreciate you checking in, Jimbo! In short, no but I think I'm close and I'm determined to figure it out. Learning a lot along the way!
Putting a tiny bit of gas down the intake starts the car briefly, so this is fuel related.
I have a few q's:
- I have an electric fuel pump (78 FI SB) and after reading a lot, many say the fuel pump starts up (or you can at least hear it) with a turn of the key in the on position. I hear nothing from mine. What's the best way to test whether the wiring or the pump itself is faulty?
- The wires for the pump are coupled and I can trace them under the dash I think, but where do they go on the other end?
Thanks! |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Starting issue (sometimes...) |
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| waller wrote: |
- I have an electric fuel pump (78 FI SB) and after reading a lot, many say the fuel pump starts up (or you can at least hear it) with a turn of the key in the on position. I hear nothing from mine. What's the best way to test whether the wiring or the pump itself is faulty?
- The wires for the pump are coupled and I can trace them under the dash I think, but where do they go on the other end?
Thanks! |
Do you have a voltmeter? Test for 12 volts on the wire at the fuel pump. If it registers 12 volts with key in ON position then you are getting power to the pump, so it would most likely be the pump itself. If no voltage then it's the wiring or something else upstream from the pump
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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