2054 Build for the Fastback

[Bobnotch]

VWporscheGT3 wrote:
Folks like you Steve are genuinely helpful, and hopefully the invasion still goes on like planned and you come cause i would love to finally meet you , shake your hand, and buy you a beer. if your watching this too Bob , you too brother. some of the best people i have met in my life are through the car community , granted there are exceptions to the rules. but you guys are rock solid, and i want you guys to know that. my responses are usually short , and since text makes it hard to read inflection i can sometimes come off as "yeah , sure whatever" and i dont mean it that way.

Hey no problem, I like giving out help when I can. I mainly was just checking the thread to see how the Elky was coming along. Looks like/sounds like Steve wants to help you spend some money. It all sounds like good advice too. Well except building cars just to put a motor in. But Steve does this enough times that he can almost build an engine blind folded. It's his forte. I don't doubt that pic of a couple in bed would have the man (Steve) thinking about engines (in his thread posted by Jason). I'm waiting for pics of his oldest (or youngest) building up an engine himself. A friend of mines kid got the mechanical gene from his uncle, and builds custom low riders, while his much older brother just works someplace doing a 9 to 5 job. The youngest moved out of state and has been working his butt off while raising a family. My son stays in contact with him and lets me know how he's doing. He's also completely self taught.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[VWporscheGT3]

[VWporscheGT3]

[VWporscheGT3]

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3548.htm

.... now, could this be adapted....

the real question lies somewhere else... should it ... lmfao.
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Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[lawn ninja]

I built a 2054 last year with .040 deck height, a set of out of the box panchito heads, with the CB hi rev single springs, titanium retainers, 40x35.5 valves, 1.1:1 rockers, 28mm ultralight lifters, with an eagle 2242 cam, 15/8 A-1 exhaust and 44IDF's and that car screamed.

Really solid street combo, I also had the entire lower assembly balanced like Steve was talking about and it was worth every penny. Car pulled from about 1500RPM to redline really hard. I had the MSD box set at a 6k cutoff and ran the full MSD ignition. I also ran the CB super Race rods.

The car screamed. I guess my point would be the setup you're building sounds pretty similar and I really liked the 2242 cam. Something to chew on is all.
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Jason

My 64 1500 S Notchback project here
My 58 sedan project here
My 63 Ghia here

[Brian_e]

[VWporscheGT3]

[lawn ninja]

[Clatter]

It's common nowadays to push the limits of what a spring can control.
I'm using a set of old Empi singles, with a big ol' stack of shims under them to control a Web 163 pushing light(er) Manley stock-size 35/32 valves.
This with Scat lifters, steel pushrods, steel retainers, and swivel feet on factory 1.1 rockers.
It's revving past 6000 right after building it,
But i certainly don't expect it to do so for very long.
Nice to have single springs on that much cam; oil stays cool, adjustment holds, valvetrain is quieter,
But I'm watching it carefully..


Gene Berg used to insist on dual springs even with a mild Engle W110,
But he built for maximum longevity when these cars were used as actual drivers.

It's one thing to control the valves; and entirely another to control them long-term.

Unless you like to be digging in and taking things back apart,
Don't be pushing your luck with light springs.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

[VWporscheGT3]

Bearings showed up YAY!!!

so I staring mocking one side up to get and idea as to where everything sits currently. with the 76mm crank and stock rods and these AA barrels the piston sits .035" above the deck. Now I'm just glad its not super proud like .100" or anything like that.
If I use a .090 shim under the barrel that moves the piston .055" down in the hole which still gives me ok quench. (I personally prefer .040-.045".... but thats just me) . at .055" in the hole and hog out the chambers to 56cc that gives me dead nuts 9.0:1 , with a little bit of intake port work and the CB eagle 2242 (very close to the Web 163) I think this will be a fun little scoot of a motor.
with my case i was making slight contact with the rod... enough to notice. so clearancing the case... unplugging the galleys , lots of drilling and tapping for this case are in my future.

Future buys for the engine are....

-Type 3 manifold and linkage kit (CB)
-Barrel shims
-exhaust flanges for the eventual 1 5/8" exhaust build
-Pushrod tubes
-Pushrods (that will likely be late in the build)

lots and lots of clearancing , and porting and all that fun stuff are in my future. and while I'm in no hurry , I am looking forward to this.
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Brian_e]

[VWporscheGT3]

The most annoying and nagging thing about this build has been thinking about the exhaust options ..or lack there of for type 3.... the extended length of the engine due to the fan shroud and the positioning of the bellows make it a bloody nightmare. and out of everything almost make it the most expensive investment for the engine.
when you look at a type three engine dead on from the back you will notice that the tin where the bellows attaches has that lip for the bellows to attach... that lip comes up to about even with the bottom of the bolt circle on the pulley which may mean I can get away with something. which got me thinking, which is a scary proposition all on its own.
the sidewinder type 1 exhaust.... yes i know it doesnt have the length to come out far enough from the fan housing... but what if.... and since we would be adding the same length to all four tubes, I made spacers that bring it out and away from the shroud... take a gander

:credit to alstrup on this photo

that loop on the right may need to be modified as well as making a heat sheild... but if I am just useing spacers and lengthening the runner length on all four tubes i shouldn't create a massive imbalance (although i know I dont know how this will effect the overall effectiveness of the system.)
since a generic black coated version of the system can be had for a little over 260... this might be an option to try and if it doesnt look like i can do anything with it then i can turn around and sell it (before modifying that loop on the right side)

what do you guys think ? am i losing my mind?


been working on case massaging and clearancing so far, have some pictures soon
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Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Clatter]

You’re building a 1 5/8” set of heater boxes, right?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[VWporscheGT3]

[VWporscheGT3]

Finally some updates on this build.


after mocking up the pistons one more time I was able to determine what compression height I will need to get my my .040" quench that i love so dearly. and put in the request at work to build some pistons. These pistons will be very similar to the CSP 32mm compression height pistons buuuuuuut with my custom compression height of 1.475". top ring groove and land will be annodized i will be running Line2Line skirt coating applied to 80% of the clearance of .0025" . the line to line helps with engine finding the perfect running fit between the piston and barrel, the coating stops wearing at the point that it finds the perfect oil wedge between the two.
Lastly we will be putting Dimples on the piston crown ... yes you read that right , dimples. UEM and Speed of Air technologies have been working together on diesel and performance pistons for quite some time now. the dimples on the piston help keep the fuel in suspension and mix the fuel more thoroughly producing a more complete and powerful burn. in diesels we have seen a reduction of EGT temps of 200 degrees, we have also seen it in other aircooled engines produce more power and lower head temps. so , i figured why the hell not, I might do a head temp gauge as well as a wideband for tuning to get this tuned perfect. the engine becomes more responsive , quicker revving and smoother running, we've seen this on some circle track cars where the racing water temp came down by 15 to 20 degrees. so this is worth looking into on my end. to top the pistons off they will also be ceramic coated on the crown.

lastly , I pulled the trigger on one of those econo sidewinder 1 5/8" type 1 exhaust to see if it could be modified to work, mainly spacing the header section to clear the fan assembly at the back of the motor. so i will try to be a good boy and post that up for all to see. if all it requires is some "spacer adapters" it might be something worth having someone fab up a bunch so i could sell them and give us type 3 folks another option... must live up to that being a cheapass type 3 reputation.

so hear we are , the motor build will start as soon as my pistons are done. (I get to wait like everyone else does on the short line) in the meantime i will report back when i have a "mockup" on the exhaust done.
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Jason37]

Read about the piston dimpling in the link you posted, very cool (pun intended) idea!

[VWporscheGT3]

They're here. mocked them up and I have .... perfect quench. .040 all the way around. Skirts are line 2 line coated crown is thermal barrier coated annodized 1st land and groove, and of course the dimples. this is a custom compression height of 1.475" so with the 76mm crank and an uncut case deck I end up with .040 quench. I am super stoked, now to get the heads finished


Just as a notice.. these are customs pistons, they will not be offered as a product line any time soon. there are two sets in existence , the other set will be sitting on my shelf as back ups.
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[VWporscheGT3]

Here we go!

I'll try to remember some pictures when it comes to assembly time.

this weekend i finally get to slap a long block together. in the meantime i have been working on this and that.

after Hogging out the chambers and runners I will finally get to lap in the valves and cylinders tonight. then clean one last time and assemble!

chambers have been opened to 54cc , which with the 76mm crank and 94mm cylinders and .040 quench i end up with a Compresion ratio of right around 9.5:1 some calculators like CB's say 9.6:1 between the two I use every day One at uempistons.com and the one I use when splitting hairs (BME calc doc) I'm just going to call it 9.5 if we are not counting the volume of the dimples in the crown, with the dimples we are at 9.3 . Based on the research and data collected from different engines including air cooled N/A race plane engines (at an even higher compression ratio , closer to 11:1) they saw reduced exhaust gas temperatures and cooler head temps (by 150 degrees at full tilt). so i hope this will help with this thing possibly being cantankerous in the summer time. i will be running 91 all the time since unlike some of you folks we dont get 93 here. (read that as I kinda hate you for it , ha ha)

after the long block goes together it will be all the tedious fitting of engine tin and then finally exhaust modification time as I mentioned in an earlier post I picked up the econo 1 5/8 sidewinder exhaust. a co-worker is going to help me tig the bastid together with the modifications. if i could afford one of the new type 3 a-1 units i would have just gone that route but alas here we are

then.... well.... it will be engine run in , i think i will finally build the engine run stand and try to get this thing tuned before going into the car. which will likely be in the spring. it gets way too frickin cold here to roll around on the concrete in winter. I know there are colder places , but this southern california born guy aint having it. hopefully when it comes time I'll be able to do a clean engine and trans install together. so i can yank out the 1600 and the old trans as a unit.
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[VWporscheGT3]

So the top end assembly went well, though I only remembered to get pictures when we were mostly done.

I dragged the boy out there kicking and screaming as he has no interest in anything to do with cars , let alone VW's , he only likes riding in Donald as he puts him to sleep puttering along.
but once out there he learned all about engines and the why and the where as to everything having its clearances for smooth running.

oiled up and installed, keep in mind I did wipe up the silicone on the studs. I am not an animal! after a final check in deck heights we come to .045 on all but number 1 which came out to .044" . All of this after a healthy amount of cussing figuring out how to get the round wire clips in as they had no tangs on them like the factory style clips. (keep in mind I am the Jerk who spec'd the damn things in...) inserting the tang on one side gets it started, then with a small screwdriver as a "ramp" you slide the other side in then working your way around the groove to make sure it is well seated and wont be coming out. the chamfer on the pin also works to help force the loc into the groove. Once i was happy that they were seated i sent the barrels "home" and double checked deck height for like the 5th flipping time.

Earlier my son and I cleaned up the heads after weeks of working on a port job... and then lapping the valves to the seats , making sure i got a good pattern on both the valve and seat for a good seal. We installed the valves and springs. Eli (my son) was fascinated with this process, couldn't seem to wrap his head around the idea that those little keepers hold back all the pressure of the springs. it really blew his mind when I told him that these weren't even the real heavy duty race springs (duals) only single high revs.

we installed the lower tins, and i had him hold the pushrod tubes while i slid the heads down. I had him adjust the tubes making sure they were in there bores square and the seam installed facing up. we sealed the washers on the inside of the rocker box and installed the nuts. he really enjoyed the torque down process with the little click. I really had to break down nearly everything for him. That everything has values you have to watch for and he seemed to get that building an engine isn't just slapping parts together. it requires checking your clearances , sometimes 3 and 4 times to make sure they are dead on so everything works together in a happy relationship. One part out of tolerance can cause a cascade effect of parts failing.

So, now the fun part, setting rocker geometry. with a quick glance with a stock length pushrod, were were already extremely close. but that was just to eyeball it. I will be working on all of that in the next few weeks. I drug out all the engine tin, threw them in the tank to de-crustify them. And now ... I gotta figure out if I am just going to paint them black , or if i want to do something special.... part of me doesnt care.... as i know myself , and i know they will just end up disqusting in no time. anyway , till next time
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.