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alaskadan Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013 Posts: 1857 Location: anchor pt. alaska
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Try living up here. I paid 27 bucks for shipping a pair of electric motor brushes. They fit in a envelope and weigh nothing. I will send you some cheese to go with your whine, if you pay the shipping! |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16503 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9605 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Isn’t it amazing how easily we were hoodwinked by ‘free shipping’?
Its not free, we all know that.
Yet we go for the deal, why not?
And now we’re addicted. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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BlueTwo Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014 Posts: 63 Location: North Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:29 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Find me a person who owns a truck, will work for nothing and I will give you free shipping. |
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Gauche1968 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2006 Posts: 1518
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Paulbeard wrote: |
Gauche1968 wrote: |
a shipping charge that is almost half the price of the (not oversized) item |
I bought two ignition switches from BusDepot and they were pennies less than the shipping cost. Still, about the same as one failure prone one from my FLAPS.
So what happens next? Everyone uses Amazon for warehousing/picking/shipping? Or does the USA do what France did and outlaw free shipping to remove that advantage? |
Well, I did have an item I purchased from one of our vendor's sites arrive the next day from Amazon with a gift receipt from the vendor. I forget how much I paid for shipping on that one. _________________ 1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7466 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
Vanuber wrote: |
...I would not be surprised if the deals USPS and UPS have struck with Amazon have inflated shipping prices for everyone else in the process... |
I cannot recall the last time I got an Amazon order via USPS.
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FWIW, I received two amazon orders from USPS today. One fulfilled by Glowshift gauges and the other by Amazon. Most orders arrive via Amazon Sprinter, but occasionally they'll still ship via UPS, USPS, FedEx (although they banned FedEx for poor service awhile back) or random uber-like people delivering in their personal car. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Busdepot Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004 Posts: 1312
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Of course free shipping is a myth - no one drives trucks for free, and gas is not free, so shipping is never free. Either it's built into the price, and/or the supplier is incentivized to buy cheaper/lesser quality product to make up for the margin lost on the "free shipping." That being said, big players like Amazon have a major cost advantage over little guys like us because of their volume. They are paying pennies on the dollar for shipping, so they can more afford to "give it away." So it's an uneven playing field; Amazon may have to jack up pricing by a few quarters to cover the "free shipping" while we'd have to jack it up by a few dollars. Also, retailers that are not as specialized can aggregate the cost over a wider range of categories, some of which may have high enough margins to support the "free" shipping.
The other challenge is shipping rate accuracy. The large players spend ten times more money on their shipping cost algorithms than I have to spend on my entire website. Say someone orders two similar dimension items, like a muffler and a steel bumper. Properly packed, they could be packed together without one damaging the other, so the total shipping cost will be much lower than if each was shipped in its own box. But say they buy a muffler and a window. Individually the same overall dimensional weight, but no way they are going in the same box without damage. There are a million scenarios like that, not to mention cases where the weight and dimensional data given to us by the supplier is just plain wrong (or nonexistent). We don't have the manpower to weigh and measure every item. So sometimes the shipping rate will be too low, sometimes too high. Our goal is not to profit on shipping, but not to lose money either. If the price was close we just eat it. If the shopping cart overcharged we try to catch it and reduce the price when the order ships on our own accord. If it's way too low sometimes we have to call and requote. We do have a minimum shipping charge (I believe it's $4.95 now), but apart from that, if you place an order and the shipping seems way off, don't hesitate to email [email protected] and Valerie or Fred can look it up and adjust it if necessary. _________________ - Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com
Last edited by Busdepot on Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9605 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Busdepot wrote: |
They are paying pennies on the dollar for shipping, so they can more afford to "give it away." So it's an uneven playing field; Amazon may have to jack up pricing by a few quarters to cover the "free shipping" while we'd have to jack it up by a few dollars. |
Amazon started with investors.
They operate at a loss while they methodically drive brick-and-mortar out of business.
The warehouse modelwins BIG over the expertise model.
And the customers take advantage of the fast free shipping, why shouldn't they?
Expertise is over-rated, right? We have Youtube.
Once this is done and the brick-and-mortar is starved out, Amazon can raise the prices and provide the promised investment value (to the investors).
That is the difference when there is money up-front (investors). It's a proven method, and no secret.
Its similar to investors buying a known quality "brand" and reducing the manufacturing cost substantially, while the buying public still thinks the price reflects quality.
During this time they can recoup the price of the 'brand' and even re-sell it to another investor.
"You get what you pay for" and "Buy once, cry once".
The investor is banking on the notion that many people will buy before discovering what he has done to the brand.
And if people are still buying the brand, he sells to the next investor under the premise that the brand cstill has the capacity for another round of quality-reduction.
It's all about the investors getting profit (from the public) and the smarter investors are successful at it and get lots of adulation and stuff.
And they have not only our assistance, but our approval, and ultimately, our money.
It's hard to resist and as such, very profitable. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Alaskaberrys Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2016 Posts: 1001 Location: SE Alaska
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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I feel like in some ways “shipping” these days is becoming synonymous with “taxes”. Somehow there should be less of them - the goal to push them down. Works for the big stores, but not for the small and ultimately us VW nut jobs.
Busdepot wrote: |
… We don't have the manpower to weigh and measure every item. So sometimes the shipping rate will be too low, sometimes too high. Our goal is not to profit on shipping, but not to lose money either. If the price was close we just eat it. If the shopping cart overcharged we try to catch it and reduce the price when the order ships on our own accord. If it's way too low sometimes we have to call and requote. We do have a minimum shipping charge (I believe it's $4.95 now), but apart from that, if you place an order and the shipping seems way off, don't hesitate to email [email protected] and Valerie or Fred can look it up and adjust it if necessary. |
I feel this is why The Samba and similar interest groups are so important to keep our vendors in business and supporting them. I’ve paid crazy freight for bumpers from GoWesty (Alaska, it’s a given). I’ve paid a lot in shipping for window seals and covers from BusDepot (almost a continent away ). And the folks at BusDepot especially have gone through some trouble to figure out shipping for me that have resulted in no sale to them as I am just too far away to justify the costs for that item (you know, the wife test ) and I really appreciate that. More than happy to occasionally overpay for the small bit that did not match the shipping matrix.
As alaskadan noted we, up here, are perhaps a bit more accustomed to high shipping (believe me, we do like to complain about it!), poor shipping (as in his example) and worse NO shipping , but we also have benefited from freight subsidies through the USPS that many folks down south perhaps do not benefit from. _________________ '91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...) |
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Fiddlestyx Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2015 Posts: 401 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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This has been happening since I got my van in 2015, it is not new. This is how they make money, charge $20 for shipping that only costs $8 as an example, pocket the difference. I have mentioned this several times before.
This is why I refuse to use the vendor that makes the Westy Go. They wanted $8 to ship a sticker. _________________ 1983 Vanagon Westfalia Air-cooled
1973 Super Beetle |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7466 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Fiddlestyx wrote: |
This is how they make money... |
Wha?!? Vanagon parts sellers are making money? I sure as heck hope they're not using all those profits to feed their children or put a roof over their heads.
Entrepreneurialism: not for people who get hurt when grumpy cheapskates complain that they're making money providing a desired service or product.
Passion for antiques: not for people who believe their passion should be subsidized by entrepreneurs. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Fiddlestyx Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2015 Posts: 401 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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jimf909 wrote: |
Fiddlestyx wrote: |
This is how they make money... |
Wha?!? Vanagon parts sellers are making money? I sure as heck hope they're not using all those profits to feed their children or put a roof over their heads.
Entrepreneurialism: not for people who get hurt when grumpy cheapskates complain that they're making money providing a desired service or product.
Passion for antiques: not for people who believe their passion should be subsidized by entrepreneurs. |
No, making money is fine and I have no problem paying my fair share. Over charging and lying about shipping charges is not fine. I'm tired of paying $30 to receive a package and then when it gets here the shipping label clearly states it was $15 to ship.
This was a huge problem on eBay when it first started. Thankfully, eBay put a stop to it.
Sorry for wanting honesty in the world.
Also, thank you for picking and choosing what I said so it fits your narrative. _________________ 1983 Vanagon Westfalia Air-cooled
1973 Super Beetle |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3093 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Fiddlestyx wrote: |
jimf909 wrote: |
Fiddlestyx wrote: |
This is how they make money... |
Wha?!? Vanagon parts sellers are making money? I sure as heck hope they're not using all those profits to feed their children or put a roof over their heads.
Entrepreneurialism: not for people who get hurt when grumpy cheapskates complain that they're making money providing a desired service or product.
Passion for antiques: not for people who believe their passion should be subsidized by entrepreneurs. |
No, making money is fine and I have no problem paying my fair share. Over charging and lying about shipping charges is not fine. I'm tired of paying $30 to receive a package and then when it gets here the shipping label clearly states it was $15 to ship.
This was a huge problem on eBay when it first started. Thankfully, eBay put a stop to it.
Sorry for wanting honesty in the world.
Also, thank you for picking and choosing what I said so it fits your narrative. |
Agree on a number of levels!
Maybe another way to think about "free" shipping is actually "Buyer doesn't have to worry what the shipping charges are" - maybe that would be a more accurate way to present it. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3093 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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vanis13 wrote: |
Short reply...I wouldn't be surprised in the future to see the same item(s) to have double listings - one with free shipping one with shipping options separate.... Sometimes the separate/combined shipping makes sense if ordering more than one item.
How it's presented could be hiding something.
Example. I manufacture the Land Rover mirror brackets in the USA and partner with an ebay seller who get the mirrors from the UK. You know a little thing to contribute to the vanagon community, there is not alot of money in it to start of with. A big name vendor copied the idea and is saying in their ad that they offer this solution cheaper than those offered on ebay (among other misleading info)... Well it turns out this copycat misleading vendor price doesn't include shipping so the almost $20 in shipping on top of their price makes the solution more expensive from them since ours which has free (included) shipping. PS, in addition, the copycat vendor charges more for shipping than what it actually costs to ship the item. |
UPDATE - This topic elicited an opportunity to connect with the vendor in my example above. Over a year ago I called them and sent a email and did not get a response so thought they were blowing me off. Turns out the owner did not receive my original email so I resent in the last few days and we have been in communication.
That vendor has since proactively removed the potentially misleading “They are NOT the same ones sold at a higher price on Ebay and Amazon” part of their ad that neglected to consider the vendor's additional shipping charges.
I've also today asked them to remove the other potentially misleading info and will update as that resolves.
Communication can be a wonderful thing! _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make
Last edited by vanis13 on Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1037 Location: Calgary, AB
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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There have been very few times I’ve shipped something, and decided I could have driven to that state / province / country myself to deliver it cheaper.
Fiddlestyx wrote: |
This is why I refuse to use the vendor that makes the Westy Go. They wanted $8 to ship a sticker. |
Some businesses need a minimum shipping charge to account for every little item they sell. When you stock 1000 items, how can you figure out every single possible combination of things someone can buy to determine a price ahead of time? The automated systems that do this are just general guesses at best, which is why, as Bus Depot says, if it’s higher or lower than the actual cost, they might have to eat the cost, or can credit you back. It changes with how things are packaged, the box sizes available, and lots of other factors. Plus there are the costs associated with boxes, packing materials, tape, shipping paperwork, etc. Maybe if it’s thought of more as “shipping and handling” fees rather than just shipping, it would feel better.
Keep in mind that when you tried to buy your $1 sticker, someone had to find it, print out paperwork, and put it in an envelope. It all costs money. They would likely be losing money even charging you $8 shipping. Also companies like FedEx and UPS have minimum charges as well, so even an envelope might be well over $10 to send. If that company doesn’t have an account with with USPS to pick up an envelope with a $0.75 stamp, then they have to pay an employee to get it to the post office. |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Sheesh, this is no different than getting a quote from a shop on a repair. They quote $100 labor and $100 parts. They do NOT pay $100 for the parts, they mark them up to list price, and the labor charge is set factoring in the profit on parts. In this example, do you really show up at the shop with your $10 part off fleabay and expect them to install it for $100? And then berate them for "ripping you off on parts"? And like everyone else here who has wrenched in shops over the years, this isn't a hypothetical, it's a discussion we've all had to have.
To the shop, it's $190 job - would you really feel better if they quoted it as $190 labor / $10 in parts? Would it feel better if that $1 dollar sticker became a $8 dollar sticker with $1 shipping? Free lunches, like perpetual motion machines, just don't exist.
If BD or anyone else quotes $X for shipping, then hits you for $2X, that's poor business practice. If you agree to the shipping CHARGE, not postal or carrier rate, and that's what you get charged, I don't see the issue. _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3093 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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vanis13 wrote: |
vanis13 wrote: |
Short reply...I wouldn't be surprised in the future to see the same item(s) to have double listings - one with free shipping one with shipping options separate.... Sometimes the separate/combined shipping makes sense if ordering more than one item.
How it's presented could be hiding something.
Example. I manufacture the Land Rover mirror brackets in the USA and partner with an ebay seller who get the mirrors from the UK. You know a little thing to contribute to the vanagon community, there is not alot of money in it to start of with. A big name vendor copied the idea and is saying in their ad that they offer this solution cheaper than those offered on ebay (among other misleading info)... Well it turns out this copycat misleading vendor price doesn't include shipping so the almost $20 in shipping on top of their price makes the solution more expensive from them since ours which has free (included) shipping. PS, in addition, the copycat vendor charges more for shipping than what it actually costs to ship the item. |
UPDATE - This topic elicited an opportunity to connect with the vendor in my example above. Over a year ago I called them and sent a email and did not get a response so thought they were blowing me off. Turns out the owner did not receive my original email so I resent in the last few days and we have been in communication.
That vendor has since proactively removed the potentially misleading “They are NOT the same ones sold at a higher price on Ebay and Amazon” part of their ad that neglected to consider the vendor's additional shipping charges.
I've also today asked them to remove the other potentially misleading info and will update as that resolves.
Communication can be a wonderful thing! |
Update 2 - vendor also removed the other potentially misleading info nd I am grateful. Working on having them possibly care some of my other creations. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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Paulbeard Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015 Posts: 2604 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Shipping Charges? |
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Paulbeard wrote: |
Gauche1968 wrote: |
a shipping charge that is almost half the price of the (not oversized) item |
I bought two ignition switches from BusDepot and they were pennies less than the shipping cost. Still, about the same as one failure prone one from my FLAPS.
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Just to update…I griped about this to the vendor, mostly because for that price I can get 2 day express and a tracking number. They refunded me a chunk of the shipping costs, with an explanation that drop shipments allow them to tie orders to tracking numbers. USPS still tracked it, though. _________________ Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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