Leak between the engine and transmission

[lumbee]

Hey guys, I have a 57 ragtop that I am getting back on the road after sitting for a few years.

I've spent the last month sorting out trans issues; you can read about those here, though I suspect this is not related. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=754438

After getting the motor and trans back in, on first start, within about a minute I get oil pouring (yes poring not dripping) from between the engine and trans. It wasn't hot and it was pretty clean, so I'm pretty sure its transmission fluid, not engine oil.

Not sure if it matters, but the car is up on stands still; it's not resting on wheels on the ground.

I'm guessing rear main seal in the trans needs to be replaced? Just wanted to sanity check this before I pull the damn thing apart again. This will be the 3rd time in two months.

[Yustrn]

Yes, here is only one seal on the trans which is the main seal, make sure you buy a good german one and you might as well change the one on the engine while you have it out too unless you know it's good and since you're there check the brass starter bushing too.
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[ZENVWDRIVER]

special tools are helpful > z

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[VW_Jimbo]

If it were me. I would figure out if it was tranny oil or engine oil. They are very different in smell, feel and taste. Yes, taste! Once you get the oil selection finalized, replace the seal that that oil is seeping by.

Remember that it could be a cracked case, or some other seal, so investigating is key. But you really need to figure out which major component to go looking at.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[lumbee]

Thanks all. As I said...I'm 90% sure it's tranny fluid, but I'll def look for any signs it's coming from any place other than the trans once I remove the engine.

I'm guessing I should drain the trans fluid before removing the seal, or is be below the level of the seal?

[Miklo]

I've never seen a transmission pour oil from the bell housing area.

A possible bad input shaft seal... Terribly bad. I would still suspect the engine.

If you aren't sure when the trans fluid was replaced, might as well just drain it and refill after installing the new input shaft seal on the transmission.

I however wouldn't doubt it's a bad main seal behind the flywheel or bad or incorrectly installed cam plug.
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✠Miklo✠
'55 Type1 "Ozma"
'66 Type1 "Charlotte" RIP
Antelope Valley's Mobile Air-Cooled Guru

[lumbee]

I agree...it was pretty intense...or at least I thought so, but I may be overstating it. It was maybe a 1/2 quart or so in the few minutes I had it running. Zero leaks before starting it...and it stopped once I turned it off. Also, as I said...the fluid was cold.

[Miklo]

!/2 a quart is not overstating it. That's quite a bit.

I still suspect the engine. Main seal behind flywheel or the cam plug.
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✠Miklo✠
'55 Type1 "Ozma"
'66 Type1 "Charlotte" RIP
Antelope Valley's Mobile Air-Cooled Guru

[lumbee]

Engine oil doesn't seem to be any lower. I think I'll drain the trans fluid and start it up again to confirm. Last thing I want to do is another tear down and replace only to find I didn't replace what I needed to.

[ZENVWDRIVER]

[VW_Jimbo]

Did you rebuild the engine, too? I am asking to clear up a thought in my head.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[lumbee]

"… might be good to always - always replace the input shaft seal when your engine is out"

Probably good advice. I didn't know they could this pernickety.

"Did you rebuild the engine, too? I am asking to clear up a thought in my head."

I did a partial rebuilt when I first acquired the car 5 years ago. New gaskets and rings, but did not split the case. After that I did run the motor some (only a few miles) but never had this oil leak issue.

I drained the trans fluid yesterday and started it and nothing leaked so trans seal it is. But I'll take Zen's advice and replace the main seal also.

[txoval]

If it was gear oil, you should know pretty easily. It has a very strong odor, some may like it, but it smells like crap to me

[VW_Jimbo]

[lumbee]

Jimbo, is that someone I can check out when I replace the main seal?

[Miklo]

We don't know till the engines pulled. It'll answer everything...

A few quick points.

Excessive end play will beat up a main seal.

Always grease the new main seal at the flywheel well when installing the new seal.

Not greasing the new main seal at the flywheel will melt a new main seal to the flywheel on its first run.

Deforming and creating a big leak at next start up, even with a brand new seal.
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✠Miklo✠
'55 Type1 "Ozma"
'66 Type1 "Charlotte" RIP
Antelope Valley's Mobile Air-Cooled Guru

[VW_Jimbo]

[D. Haviland]

If you've ever driven through Odessa, Texas, that's what 90 weight gear lube smells like. Not good.