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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 474
Location: KS
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 Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: Sub-Frame Cover plate question |
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So, I have the Right Gerson placed and ready to tack in place. But before I start, wanted to ask about the connection to the tunnel for the Sub-Frame cover plate. The original subframe nut anchor points to the tunnel were cracked on the right side. (I looked at the left side and they also look cracked. I removed and ground the right side area down in prep for the replacement. But for my question.
Should I be worried about this and replace the sub-frame bushings and create a stronger anchor point on the tunnel? Or is this just something more common and just make sure I have a good weld to the tunnel and move on?
Thanks in advance.
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Sub-Frame Cover plate question |
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If the "L" tabs are still solid, I'd just weld them back on. The center bolt should be more than enough to hold the rear sub assembly in place. Run an M8-1.25 tap thru the nuts though, so the plate can be bolted to the floor.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 474
Location: KS
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Sub-Frame Cover plate question |
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Unfortunately the "L"s were what were cracked. I have marked the hole in the gerson and was going to weld one of the spare support frame brackets to the tunnel and use the appropriate nut against the bolt. Then place a rubber washer both on the bottom and top to seal the opening.
I remember hearing a story from long ago of a rear subframe separating when a squareback was going around a corner too fast. I was never sure why it happened or if it was a rare thing. That said, I wanted to be sure both the front frame end and the rear sub-frame would have new rubber as it would likely be the only time I would take either off. And since they offer new rubber for rear subframe bushings, I don't consider aluminum a logical alternative.
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sub-Frame Cover plate question |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
| I remember hearing a story from long ago of a rear subframe separating when a squareback was going around a corner too fast. I was never sure why it happened or if it was a rare thing. |
I find this fairly hard to believe unless the car was very poorly maintained. I've driven some very poor condition cars a lot harder than I should and have never come across anything remotely close. The shape of the subframe and weight distribution would make this difficult, IMO. |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 474
Location: KS
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Sub-Frame Cover plate question |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
I find this fairly hard to believe unless the car was very poorly maintained. I've driven some very poor condition cars a lot harder than I should and have never come across anything remotely close. The shape of the subframe and weight distribution would make this difficult, IMO. |
I could believe bolt shear might make it possible. I personally experienced bolt shear on a GTI rear shock and it was not a joy. (Bolt was OEM) I believe you that the shape and weight would make it difficult. But if the bolt steel was faulty or had crystalized over time, bad things might happen. The stressors of a rear shock bolt on a GTI is definitely different than the subframe bolt.
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Sub-Frame Cover plate question |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
Unfortunately the "L"s were what were cracked. I have marked the hole in the gerson and was going to weld one of the spare support frame brackets to the tunnel and use the appropriate nut against the bolt. Then place a rubber washer both on the bottom and top to seal the opening.
I remember hearing a story from long ago of a rear subframe separating when a squareback was going around a corner too fast. I was never sure why it happened or if it was a rare thing. That said, I wanted to be sure both the front frame end and the rear sub-frame would have new rubber as it would likely be the only time I would take either off. And since they offer new rubber for rear subframe bushings, I don't consider aluminum a logical alternative. |
In this case make up something like Steve did (fake it), as they'll be under the carpet and won't be seen.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Sub-Frame Cover plate question |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
I find this fairly hard to believe unless the car was very poorly maintained. I've driven some very poor condition cars a lot harder than I should and have never come across anything remotely close. The shape of the subframe and weight distribution would make this difficult, IMO. |
I could believe bolt shear might make it possible. I personally experienced bolt shear on a GTI rear shock and it was not a joy. (Bolt was OEM) I believe you that the shape and weight would make it difficult. But if the bolt steel was faulty or had crystalized over time, bad things might happen. The stressors of a rear shock bolt on a GTI is definitely different than the subframe bolt. |
Anything is possible - it's hard to believe because there are five anchor points on the subframe. I don't count the four small bolts that hold the front cover plate to the pan.
The majority of the weight is on the absolute rear end - making it push 'up' on the front mount so it seems like at least two bolts would have to fail to notice it. I've driven around in a car I was building with only three of the five bolts holding the subframe to the car and I didn't notice a difference. |
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