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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4800 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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i truly applaude your AC skills and prowess. i'll read carefully the details for the refurb on my stock '89 Westy destined for resale.
but i'm still so happy with my AC delete on the ratty '87 even in mid 90's with midwest humidity! easy access to engine, easy radiator cooling, lots of sleeper headroom and rear vision. i rolls down the window and experience the summer in all it's make-a-fatman-sweat glory. i think the critical factor is having the Westy top and roof rack to act as a 'safari roof' per the old Series I and II Land Rovers. i just never feel that hot in a Westy vs sweltering in my Civic plus the incessant thrumming in most vehicles that the Westy avoids. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:39 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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No, no rewiring yet.
I wanted to get the A/C fully functional first before making any changes.
Don't make multiple changes at one time, do it in steps.
The SA modifications to A/C have been mentioned, is there a SA wiring diagram that lays out the system?
Or does someone have a sketch of changes one should make?
*Heavier Wire from Alternator to Fuse
*Upgraded Fuse
*Relays for each fan speed rather than putting the load on the fan switch.
*Something about the A/C clutch relay?
*Rewire how two fans are fed from one wire to prevent over load, I'm not clear how to do this.
I noticed the A/C relay, the tall black one with multiple plugs, gets frighteningly hot!
The left screw that holds multiple power feed wires after the fuse gets hot also.
I got home late last night and exhausted. We had family visiting and stayed too long at my daughters home.
Hence, No refrigerant level updates.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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campism Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 4492 Location: Richmond VA
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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djkeev wrote: |
I have a plan. |
The words my wife hates to hear me utter. _________________ '87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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jvarg Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2015 Posts: 14 Location: Montauk, New York
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Hey Dave,
Any plans for writing up a list of parts, akin to the one cellerdoor put together some years back for his ‘86 Westy AC overhaul? Would be helpful to me and I’m sure a whole bunch of folks, as I know Eaton has superseded their previous line of EZ Clip AC hoses. I know you’ve listed links and sources/pricing for many other components in the thread (compressor, condenser, etc), but I didn’t seem to catch a list of the EZ Clip components and hose lengths, but I could have missed it…
Anyways, cheers and thanks for all the useful info provided! May your AC blow cold. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Tall AC relay with multiple plugs. I'm guessing you are talking about J32 on Bentley 97.144 as it has a bunch of wires coming off it. The left hand portion in the schematic shows the relay controlling fan speed 3. Try running the AC with the speed on 4 which has it's own and separate relay and see if it still gets just as hot. If not, then I would abandon that portion of the tall relay and add a new 50 amp one.
*Rewire how two fans are fed from one wire to prevent over load, I'm not clear how to do this.
I'm not quite sure what you mean about running a single wire. Not having my system on the bench with the wiring hooked up, I can't tell, but am assuming there are separate wires going from the J157 evaporator speed 4 relay to the blower motors. You could eliminate these extra ones with a jumper at the blowers themselves. This might create some kind of imbalance with the series speed resistors, but don't know. Others can advise you on that. Whatever Mark AKA crazyvanman says, I would trust completely.
Of course, it you relocate the resistors outside the evaporator housing, then a single wire could feed the fans and provide all four speeds with fewer wires going up to the housing from the D pillar.
Screw with multiple leads getting hot. Again, don't know what they are and feed, but sounds like a busbar is needed.
Duncan |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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thebaz67 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2010 Posts: 38 Location: Louisa, Virginia
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Thank you very much for documenting all your work, this is a thread I know I will be referencing when the time comes to get my AC working. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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I am being encouraged by dobryan to get some real world temperatures inside my Van.
It it quite easy to get front cab temperatures while driving and even plenum air temperatures.
I'm going to get rear A/C intake air temperatures.
(Though today is forecast to be mild with no need for A/C! )
Because it is a work Van the rear mattress is removed for tools and materials.
As a result a lot of engine heat is readily transferred through the exposed metal and plastic engine cover.
A good working A/C unit can only be expected to drop 30° ....... maybe 35° across the Evaporator coil.
I may just be chasing Unicorn Horns trying to get a plenum output air temperature in the upper 30’s that I cannot realistically achieve without better engine area insulation.
When it is 86° ambient and my cab is 68° with a 47° plenum what is my return air temperature? Could it easily be near 80° with radiant engine heat?
If it is, I can not expect any better plenum air temperatures.
If it is verified to be that hot, I should next install the mattress pad and see how much the intake air and plenum air temperature change.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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On a big vehicle like a T3 , 30F delta will be good. Make sure you are high idle , like 1500-2000 for 15 minutes to take the measurement consistently.
If you get > 30F delta and low to high pressure ratio of about 4-5x run it there and spend life time somewhere else.
On edit :
That’s for R134A , I think red Tek runs a lower ratio? _________________ .ssS! |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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djkeev wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
On a big vehicle like a T3 , 30F delta will be good. Make sure you are high idle , like 1500-2000 for 15 minutes to take the measurement consistently.
If you get > 30F delta and low to high pressure ratio of about 4-5x run it there and spend life time somewhere else.
On edit :
That’s for R134A , I think red Tek runs a lower ratio? |
👍 I get my temperatures doing real world driving, not sitting in the driveway with a box fan blowing.
Dave |
You introduce a huge number of new variables when you do this. If you keep it simple, you cam get the charge snicked in just right and chase the elusive 45 F delta _________________ .ssS! |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Well, the heat has returned but without the killer humidity!
It was mid 80’s today.
I went for a ride and did some temperature checks.
Ambient 85°
Drivers Seat 66.8°
Plenum out put (no duct work) 51.4°
Evaporator Intake Grill 87.8°
That's a 36.4° drop across the Evaporator Coil.
I don't think that I can expect better.
Now, this is with a bare engine area. No rear mattress. Bare engine cover and exposed metal floor.
I shot some temperatures in that area, they ranged from 92° to 102° up to 105° after sitting but a minute or two.
So, I thought, put the mattress back in, insulation! Right?
WRONG! So very Wrong.
After 15-20 minute of driving the same route .....
The intake grill dropped by maybe a degree or so but nothing dramatic.
The foam must simply transfer the heat right through it.
I imagine on a days drive the air would eventually win? Maybe not. Heat is a formidable opponent.
Sensor bulb location
Mattress in ...... unless that missing D pillar cover is a Jet Stream of heat?
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning |
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Well....... lots of things are happening!
There is a lot of discussion on why electrical fires happen in Vanagons equipped with the "D" Pillar A/C.
I'll add sone links......
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757441
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=756751
It will be interesting to see where this all lands!
Today I installed my ceiling duct work from the rear Evaporator to the front distribution manifold.
I will make a thread on how I hung this broken system of ducts and can assure you, they are NOT going to fall down again!
Here is the link ..........
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757559
I've noticed that many people speak ill of and have strong anti duct feelings.
I've run for two weeks now with no duct work.
It works, the Van cools off but I run the fan on three most of the time, sometimes on four.
Speed two barely moves air (at least in my opinion).
My Wife keeps a hair tie on my shift lever just like when we were dating in the early 1970’s and my cars were without A/C. We ran everywhere with open windows! The interior air movement created by the fans in the Van is that severe without duct work.
Ah....... youthful memories........
Anyway, without duct work I found the cold air on the back of my neck to be rather annoying.
With the Duct work installed it is like I entered the 21st Century!
Now?
I can use speed 2 and still have gentle cold air flow!
I only have speeds 4, 3 & 2 because I'm using a three speed heater fan switch.
I want to fix my four speed switch now so I have speed 1 to use too!
I've only taken one drive with the front A/C ducts hooked up.
I absolutely LOVE IT!!!!!!
It was time well spent to hang the duct work!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:28 am; edited 4 times in total |
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