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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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The beam was kinda in the way now and I had already whacked my shin bloody on the shock mount bolt sticking out, so and couldn't wait to get it off the floor and in the bus. It didn't seem that heavy stripped down, so I grabbed it and sat down with it on may lap, then crawled under the bus with it. I worked it up to my chest and just bench pressed it up and my wife was there to stab some screwdrivers in the bolt holes so I could get out. Bolting it up was a snap, so I went onto mounting the torsion arms that night.
Pre-greased them best I could along with a new seal and in they went and set. I used my wooden block to get under the upper arm and jacked it up enough for the the new snubber to clear its mount, then hammered on the snubber with the help of a stick until it was evenly seated. Followed that up with a grease gun pump fest that eventually filled up torsion arm ends until it showed at the seals. Knocked out both sides and called it a day.
Next up was my spindles but had some book reading to do first to figure out the shim situation. I have two different service manuals and a printout from greg @campingbox when I got my spindles back that helped start me off right. There are a few Youtube vids that really cleared the fog the most, but between it all I found out what to do. First up I needed to find my offset measurements.
I messed with this one morning before work and tried different clamps and straight edges to get a hand free. I ended up realizing I could get different measurements a few .100 apart depending on what side of the arm I was measuring from or if I reset the clamp and straight edge, so I just took several different measurements. Ditched the highest and lowest number and took an average from the closest 5. Driver side was right on the cusp and I could have rounded down to 5.5mm or up to 6mm and went with the 6mm. The Passenger side was a solid 7mm. That night after work, I took a minute to copy the layout on the video I was watching to help me get the shims and bearings organized. This was as a huge help.
3 more days go by before I can jump on the install. All quiet one early morning and I'm all alone to get this done without distraction. Double triple check my measurements and my driver side bolts right up. It's the harder one because it's tight for me with the wheel close by some build in cabinets int the garage bay. What a joy seeing this piece all refreshed and mounted. Turns like a dream. I struggled with the first metal dust seal end cap wondering if it was going to be finesse or power to get them seated right. Started with fine taps but got one a little rounded so had to reform on the bench vice and try again. Ended up being both finest and a few stiff blows and back to finesse at the end to make sure they were fully seated. Also helps to see where the crimps were the last time they were used. Tossed the new front shock on and greased the bearings then slid the tools over to the other side.
Second one went slick and had time to put the steering control arms on and the steering damper as well before calling it a day. Clean tools and sweep shop so the area is ready for me to bolt up the wheels next session.
Really enjoyed bolting this up. I started stripping this a few months ago and kinda surprised I'm through it already with little quick shots here and there. Campingbox's critical help and expertise really shot the project forward for me, I can't thank him enough. Now I'm looking forward to have a rolling bus and actually eyeballing the engine!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Looks awesome Matt!
I wish I had thought to mention sooner, since you're a little too far along now...But the reproduction torsion arm seals are junk and will crack (and possibly break entirely) in a year or two. I always save and re-use the original seals if they are not too worn.
I really don't understand how the quality of rubber is so poor in our modern era 
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| sled wrote: |
Looks awesome Matt!
I wish I had thought to mention sooner, since you're a little too far along now...But the reproduction torsion arm seals are junk and will crack (and possibly break entirely) in a year or two. I always save and re-use the original seals if they are not too worn.
I really don't understand how the quality of rubber is so poor in our modern era |
Thanks for the feedback Jake!
I sure hope mine last a few years at least! Like you said, they are pretty buried in there. Thankfully I know how to access them now. Although mine were pretty rough shape and cracked all over, you know I saved them anyway, haha. I'll keep my eye open for some better ones to have on hand for when these need replaced I'm not in the same situation again.
I think there is more demand than ever for the raw materials and quality matches what people are willing to pay for. Think of the time I will spend changing these seals over a few measly dollars. My hurtle is that I don't know where to get a known quality seal at the moment.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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I pressed on and bolted up my front wheels throughout the day yesterday. I was really on a "roll" and everything was clicking together so I just kept adding parts. I knew all those days of cleaning would mean a nice bolt up session, but this was a blast! Not only was my bus looking neater, but the pile of empty crates and boxes didn't look too bad either as my workspace cleaned up.
I got the parts sequence down and tools sorted out on the one open passenger side and slid them over to the tight side so that was good. It's a pain to crawl in and out of that side without catching my face of the open mirror arm or bumper blade, so was nice I didn't have to more than a few times. The new pads have a kind of slotted spring mounting hole I didn't notice at first so messed with different positions on that. I couldn't see any advantage to one way or the other. I feel they are there to make sure the springs don't rub on anything. In the end, I did make them parallel and match on each side in case it did effect the way they operate.
Could have stopped at the backing plates for the day but just cranked up the tunes and got some wheel bearings repacked. I'm buying a packer next time I see one. I simply wanted to see if I was looking at any issues. The drums slid right on and will say that spinning them they feel just about right without adjusting the stars and the pads turned all the way back. They seem ready for charging and adjusting.
And just for fun, shop space and safety, something other than a few jack stands, I went ahead and mounted up the tires. I just sat there spinning and turning them. So smooth and fluid. This is by far the tightest front end I have in my group right now. I'm going to have to do this to my other two buses now that I have an understanding of whats going on and how to do it. I can only imagine how nicely this will ride.
My punch list is mount the steering column and finish up the front controls and charge the brakes. I'm going to temp mount my old '65 steering wheel so I can move the bus around until I'm done refinishing the OG black one. I can't hurry that. Feels awesome to have my undercarriage buttoning up.
I feel I had a hell of a weekend! I pretty much blew off everything else, so I'm gonna have to chill for a while. Sturgis Bike Rally is only a few weeks away and needs my entire focus and concentration. Barring any surprises, I can earn some extra money to keep pilling into this bus! I mean look at this engine just sitting here waiting patiently. Brian @type_e has agreed to supervise my first engine build and we can now get started at any time. I'm getting really excited for this. We've been going back and fourth for months discussing what we want to do, but now it's time to commit to a for real game plan. Gonna be an awesome experience for me. I can stall just a little bit more as I strip down the externals and document.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Had a pretty good couple of sessions lately. Most notably was the having my wife help me get the steering box installed. How great is is to have her there to guide the shaft and slide on the seal and bushing collar.
But first I wanted to get most if the pedals built up and whatnot first. I made up a little bench bleeder tubing kit bench bled the the master and got that going. I found the piston rod needed shortened and I was able to tap the yoke just a bit more and get some more threads on the rod and it adjusted where I need it.
I popped out the old pedal felt thinking it rotted but I found it to be in good shape so instead of putting rubber in there I happily put it back in.
Satisfied with the clutch and brake pedals I got Cat involved and we put the steering column in. I found it interesting she didn’t just help there and immediately bail. We were having fun going through all they systems together. I was held up a min trying to get the speedo cable to pass through the axle. It wouldn’t simply push through from behind. While checking for blockages, I could see it’s channel isn’t straight. I ended up threading some safety wire through the hole in the cable, spun around a wrench to help me pull it through as I pushed from behind. Little grease too, and that worked.
We went onto placing the steering linkage and messing with cotter pins, then temporarily placing my spare steering wheel on the shaft so we can steer the bus in and out of the garage when we want. This was a fun moment of truth. I wanted to see the travel and front wheel orientation. I was able to get two full revolutions and the wheels travel looks to be evenly distributed. I haven’t adjusted any of the linkages so we’ll see how the wheel sets when traveling. It was more that a little satisfying sitting there repeatedly rotating the wheel and feeling how smoothly the mechanisms work. We agreed that this front end is the nicest of the three with he other two pining to be next.
I’m usually working on the bus alone and never take selfies. Cat secretly got a host of pictures of me working the bus, all of them terrible. I don’t feel very photogenic these days. I was like this is what the skin around my ear side of my face looks like? Yeah dude. Well I’m grateful to be alive and kicking and fortunate to have this project bus to work on. I’ll post this one of me as it’s primary worker bee and what life under here has been like for a few months as I get this area sorted out.
We went for the shifter and realized I still had some cleaning to do, haha. I though I’d have to get a hand or a prop from below to get the bolts in, but found a simple plastic shim wedged in there worked fine. Went slick. I now have the shift rod connecting the rear end together. Grub screws wired all around.
While in back I took note of one hanging bead of clear fluid at the passenger side trans plate. No drip on the floor, so nothing major there. I didn’t pull the axles off so I get what I get there. Might be my boot job, might just be spillage from my fill job, might be a gasket, will monitor. I will happily report that my wheels and RGB are not leaking so I’m actually more pleased about that. Just stoked that the front and rear are one unit now.
At this point, we jack up the bus and get the jack stands out and lower the bus on its shoes. Haven’t seen that stance yet and she looks awesome. I torqued the lug nuts and tapped the end caps on. I have to make sure the tires are chocked now as this baby can roll.
A couple shots from below while still in the air turned out neat as hell. I’m in love with this look. Bio mechanical mech robot. Like an HR Giger painting. Cables and fluids supporting bolts, gears and whatnot. Art. Antique art. Interactive antique. Neat on so many levels.
Next will be charging the brake system and adjusting the parking brake cables, then I can roll the bus out. Will need to happen to get the engine out front for a wash down at some point. Thanks for joining me.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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BulliBill
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Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4573
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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In that last photo, is there a "bend" in the driver side tie rod?
Very nice work, fun to follow!
Bill
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
In that last photo, is there a "bend" in the driver side tie rod?
Very nice work, fun to follow!
Bill |
Ya know, I did notice that. There is slight bend matching on both of them so chocked it up as normal and didn’t straighten them. Would you say they’re supposed to be straight? I’ll have to investigate this more. Thanks!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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I'm back in the garage after completing a three week work commitment. I've had the garage cleaned out and the bus moved over in the corner on dollies to maximize my shop space in anticipation of digging into the engine. I was looking to start on it by this winter, but here I am ready to go a few months early. I'm sure there will be a few surprises than can set me back some time down the road, so why not jump on it a little ahead of schedule.
I didn't want to get involved at all until my plate was relatively clear and could invest my full attention. The game plan and goal for the day was to take lots of pictures, basic debris removal then strip the externals and tin. I started early in the morning and had a decent day at it.
Quick rundown is the fan shroud and generator came right off. The carburetor and intake manifold was a snap. I little heat along the way to free up bolts and a few tough tin screws. Hard to believe it can make power enough to push a bus around with such a tiny carb and length of small diameter intake plumbing to single port heads, but at this point I’m still inclined to stick to the plan and run it as is.
It was the stale air duct and muffler coupling and clamps that were a bit of a bear. As I added heat and oil I was hoping for a gap to show, then the pipe on the muffler just disintegrated and I was able to just wiggle and twist off the muffler pretty easy. I figure I can meticoulously grind off the fused outer layer covering the stale air pipe down the road. Hopefully it will still have some meat on it.
I got interrupted a few times and came back to go for something more and went after the lower pulley so I could remove some more tin. The mounting bolt spun right off with impact and after some oil and a light touch of heat, the pulley came off with a few hundred tiny tapes of my ball hammer. That's about how far I got on engine day one.
I did get hung up in the right tin with this spring loaded duct work shaft and lever. I feel I can unpuzzle it in the morning fresh. There has to be a way into it and a sequence to re installing it while loading the spring. I'd take any hints from anyone here as I investigate and poke around the search tool and manuals. I didn't even flip the engine over yet to see whats going on at the underside tin.
That's that! I'm happy to be back at at! I've been reading your threads and posts when I can!! Thanks!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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EverettB 
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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On the pre-heat linkage you circled, unscrew the thermostat underneath the engine from the thermostat rod that goes up through the cylinder head, then it will be loose. You can rotate the triangular piece on top and unhook the thermostat rod from it.
Typically you unhook the spring from behind the rectangular piece that hold the pre-heat bowl before removing the fan shroud - this removes the spring tension from that piece.
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earlywesty
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Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2358
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| WildIdea wrote: |
I pressed on and bolted up my front wheels throughout the day yesterday. I was really on a "roll" and everything was clicking together so I just kept adding parts. I knew all those days of cleaning would mean a nice bolt up session, but this was a blast! Not only was my bus looking neater, but the pile of empty crates and boxes didn't look too bad either as my workspace cleaned up.
I got the parts sequence down and tools sorted out on the one open passenger side and slid them over to the tight side so that was good. It's a pain to crawl in and out of that side without catching my face of the open mirror arm or bumper blade, so was nice I didn't have to more than a few times. The new pads have a kind of slotted spring mounting hole I didn't notice at first so messed with different positions on that. I couldn't see any advantage to one way or the other. I feel they are there to make sure the springs don't rub on anything. In the end, I did make them parallel and match on each side in case it did effect the way they operate.
Could have stopped at the backing plates for the day but just cranked up the tunes and got some wheel bearings repacked. I'm buying a packer next time I see one. I simply wanted to see if I was looking at any issues. The drums slid right on and will say that spinning them they feel just about right without adjusting the stars and the pads turned all the way back. They seem ready for charging and adjusting.
And just for fun, shop space and safety, something other than a few jack stands, I went ahead and mounted up the tires. I just sat there spinning and turning them. So smooth and fluid. This is by far the tightest front end I have in my group right now. I'm going to have to do this to my other two buses now that I have an understanding of whats going on and how to do it. I can only imagine how nicely this will ride.
My punch list is mount the steering column and finish up the front controls and charge the brakes. I'm going to temp mount my old '65 steering wheel so I can move the bus around until I'm done refinishing the OG black one. I can't hurry that. Feels awesome to have my undercarriage buttoning up.
I feel I had a hell of a weekend! I pretty much blew off everything else, so I'm gonna have to chill for a while. Sturgis Bike Rally is only a few weeks away and needs my entire focus and concentration. Barring any surprises, I can earn some extra money to keep pilling into this bus! I mean look at this engine just sitting here waiting patiently. Brian @type_e has agreed to supervise my first engine build and we can now get started at any time. I'm getting really excited for this. We've been going back and fourth for months discussing what we want to do, but now it's time to commit to a for real game plan. Gonna be an awesome experience for me. I can stall just a little bit more as I strip down the externals and document.
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On the new front brake shoes and the slotted holes for the springs....I do believe it does matter. I recently ran in to this on my 55. The previous owner had put on new shoes and used the inner (less spring pressure) holes and I had a repeat rubbing of the shoe on the drum, the shoes were not being held against the backing plate properly. I couldnt figure itmout at first because it seemed fine with the drum off. When I noticed the springs were in the wrong slot, adjusted them and the rubbing is gone. As much as its a pain I would recommend pulling the drum and moving yours to the other position. Fwiw, the sound only started after a good firm brake test, not initially while spinning drum on jack stands.
Bus is coming along nicely! |
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velvetgreen
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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i am surprised that a 60's bus has the coiled wire cover over the horn button wire? I didn't think that was offered on a 60'? Do you know if it is original? |
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matthew henricks
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WildIdea
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Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| EverettB wrote: |
On the pre-heat linkage you circled, unscrew the thermostat underneath the engine from the thermostat rod that goes up through the cylinder head, then it will be loose. You can rotate the triangular piece on top and unhook the thermostat rod from it.
Typically you unhook the spring from behind the rectangular piece that hold the pre-heat bowl before removing the fan shroud - this removes the spring tension from that piece. |
Thank you! Your explanation helped me have success on this part removal. Will post up soon.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| buseric wrote: |
On the new front brake shoes and the slotted holes for the springs....I do believe it does matter. I recently ran in to this on my 55. The previous owner had put on new shoes and used the inner (less spring pressure) holes and I had a repeat rubbing of the shoe on the drum, the shoes were not being held against the backing plate properly. I couldnt figure itmout at first because it seemed fine with the drum off. When I noticed the springs were in the wrong slot, adjusted them and the rubbing is gone. As much as its a pain I would recommend pulling the drum and moving yours to the other position. Fwiw, the sound only started after a good firm brake test, not initially while spinning drum on jack stands.
Bus is coming along nicely! |
Thanks buseric. I don’t find this rework to be a pain. You haven’t steered me wrong yet. I can pop off the wheels and pull the drum and move the springs. Maybe just need new nut securing clips. I’ve moved on from that system for now until I get the fluid in the lines and bleed. I did make a note so I won’t forget.
I’m here for the info and learning and I’m grateful whenever someone takes the time teach me something. My strategy is to implement it.
I just noticed on the “what have you done for your bus today” thread BarryL was sanding his pads to marry up more flush with the drums. I have to think this would improve stopping and make initial adjusting that much more responsive at the stars. I may just do that while I’m back in there.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion
Last edited by WildIdea on Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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WildIdea
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Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| velvetgreen wrote: |
i am surprised that a 60's bus has the coiled wire cover over the horn button wire? I didn't think that was offered on a 60'? Do you know if it is original? |
I have no reason to believe it was replaced, but certainly could have been in its 61 years. I’ll defer to someone else with more experience than me on what is correct for the year.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| matthew henricks wrote: |
| Very nice. Front end looks soo nice! |
Thank you!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
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Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Back at it this morning I wanted to drain the oil and finish the tin removal. After pulling the drain plug, I went right after following Everette's removal lead on the preheat thermostat lever. That all started with the stale air ductwork removal. I freed the head bolts and one sheet metal screw at the lower corner seam and I found the whole heat exchanger and tin would come right off in one big group. A bit of nesting material in there, but everything looks intact! Of note is one broken cable mount flap lever. I have the barrel nut part that was on the cable and will have to fab a repair here to rejoin them.
With the thermostat exposed, I could see I could remove all the linkage with ease.
I still needed the spring loaded shaft off to remove the upper head tin and once I could spin it around I realized I could simply remove a retaining ring on the outer end and slide the lever off. Once I did that I found out it still had an inner stud that was mounted through the case. That came out easy and I was able to bag the whole set of parts together for future freshing.
The old drained all day and the sump looked clean. A 1/4in tall gray sludge on the plate. The oil smelled so old and earthy, basically smelled like dirt but seems to act like oil overall.
The engine looks pretty caked with oil and dirt, critters, bugs and nests. I will be going after the outside crud and conditioning what I have removed as I go on. I need to buy another gallon of Wax and Grease remover, that will make my third for this project so far. Brian and I are thinking leak down test before I start digging further. Thanks for looking.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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Bendango
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Awesome Engine time!
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WANTED - [WTB] 55-62 Bus Thin Lip Package Tray SWR
Getting Used - SWR 60 westy copy built by vw ( apparently  )
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=320866
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vwuberalles
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BulliBill
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Looks like you thermostat "may" have failed at some point, a good one normally retracts a bit tighter than the one in your photo. When they fail or are punctured and fail they naturally expand a bit. Hard to be sure from the photo. Hopefully it is all right.
Bill
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Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
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