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stormy56 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 13 Location: WA
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:33 pm Post subject: 1955 build help |
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Hi guys, I’m looking for some help choosing heads and camshaft for my engine build, important specs as follows
Mag case, full flowed
76mm DPR crank
Lightened flywheel
5.5” cb rods
90.5 mahles
1 5/8” merged exhaust
IDAs with 35 vents
Going in an oval beetle with a AT code IRS trans
195/60 15’s
The car will be a weekend hot rod, not a daily driver
I think either cb panchitos or wedge ports will work for what I want, but will the valves in the panchitos be too small?
And I like the look of the web 163, I want a wide rev range, will it be enough cam?
Cheers
Evan |
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DerrickfromNC1 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008 Posts: 1293 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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I thought the Panchitos might be too small for my 2332 until I saw this build sheet from CBs website. CB has installed the Panchitos in several 2332 motors with results like this:
2332cc EFI
September 20th, 2018
184 HP @ 5600rpm
192 ft/lbs of Torque @ 4800rpm
Features:
10:1 Compression
#1673 Panchito 044's (40 x 35.5) 94 Bore
#1706 Ultra Wide Glide Sump (4 Quart)
#2300 Eagle Drag Race Camshaft (Engine Builder Special)
#1685 CB Super Stock 1.25:1 Rocker Arms
#9200 MST Billet Valve Covers - Black Anodized
#1771 Oil Filler Breather Box Kit
48mm Throttle Bodies
Gen4 EFI System |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7183 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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stormy56 wrote: |
Hi guys, I’m looking for some help choosing heads and camshaft for my engine build, important specs as follows
Mag case, full flowed
76mm DPR crank
Lightened flywheel
5.5” cb rods
90.5 mahles
1 5/8” merged exhaust
IDAs with 35 vents
Going in an oval beetle with a AT code IRS trans
195/60 15’s
The car will be a weekend hot rod, not a daily driver
I think either cb panchitos or wedge ports will work for what I want, but will the valves in the panchitos be too small?
And I like the look of the web 163, I want a wide rev range, will it be enough cam?
Cheers
Evan |
As long as it is on paper we can change things easily.
Such an engine with the P heads and the 163 cam could be a very nice driver, - with only a 1½" merge header. It can be very powerfull for its size, but a warrior,,,, no.
If you want a warrior you need to step up on the cam. I´m thinking CB 2288, maybe even the Web 86B. Then you can exploit the 1 5/8" header. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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stormy56 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 13 Location: WA
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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Thanks, good info
I already have the case, crank, flywheel, rods, p’s and c’s and carbs
My next purchases will be valve train/exhaust
The cam was my biggest worry, 86b with panchitos sounds good |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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The 86b is hard to get right now as there is a blank shortage. I do have one in stock. |
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stormy56 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 13 Location: WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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After a little research it looks like an 86b is more suited to mini wedge ports? |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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stormy56 wrote: |
After a little research it looks like an 86b is more suited to mini wedge ports? |
Who is saying that? |
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stormy56 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 13 Location: WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
stormy56 wrote: |
After a little research it looks like an 86b is more suited to mini wedge ports? |
Who is saying that? |
I found a few posts on here saying the port volume is too high for the 86b and they perform poorly at low rpm?
Can’t find the post now |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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stormy56 wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
stormy56 wrote: |
After a little research it looks like an 86b is more suited to mini wedge ports? |
Who is saying that? |
I found a few posts on here saying the port volume is too high for the 86b and they perform poorly at low rpm?
Can’t find the post now |
All depends on what type of powerband you want. The panchitos will not have too much port volume and they will run cooler than the mini wedge. Me? I would chose Tims stage one heads. |
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stormy56 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 13 Location: WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
stormy56 wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
stormy56 wrote: |
After a little research it looks like an 86b is more suited to mini wedge ports? |
Who is saying that? |
I found a few posts on here saying the port volume is too high for the 86b and they perform poorly at low rpm?
Can’t find the post now |
All depends on what type of powerband you want. The panchitos will not have too much port volume and they will run cooler than the mini wedge. Me? I would chose Tims stage one heads. |
And I’m assuming the mini wedges will perform better at higher rpms?
My aim is for a rev range between 3000~6500
And I’d like a CR around 9.5/1 |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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Yes mini wedges would have more top and less low end than panchitos.
Yea, Panchitos and the 86b will give you the powerband you want. The first stroker I built back in 1978 was the same bore and stroke as yours. My heads were bigger than panchitos but I had less cam than the 86b and It was done at 6500. The cam was a web 118 with 1.25 autocraft rockers. I would not go any bigger than 40 X 35.5 Heads.
Dan |
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stormy56 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 13 Location: WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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Cool thanks, I’ll be in touch about the cam |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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If the carbs and manifolds are right, a 40mm valve with a correct 88-89% throat (which panchitos have) will allow a 1955cc to rev to 7022rpm.
A 42mm valve on the same engine with a slightly larger 90% throat (which I believe the bigger CNC CB heads have, will allow the 1955cc to rev to 7894rpm.
Too large of a valve make for too large of a port. Too large of a port kills bottom end power because of the slow airspeed.
A cam in the 86b, FK8, cb2288, w125 would be great in this engine.
I have a few brand new FK8’s on the shelf if you decide to go that route.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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I agree |
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stormy56 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 13 Location: WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: 1955 build help |
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Thanks for that info Brian, I think you’ve all helped me solve my problem, so the final parts to my recipe are;
CNC’d panchitos
Web 86b
CB lightweight lifters
ACN pushrods
1.4 Scat rockers
CB straight cut cam gears
Done? |
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