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Pulling to the left.
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:07 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

John S. wrote:
Rotors have about 5,000 miles on them.
New German steel; they were replaced when calipers were originally rebuilt.
No damage, they're like new.

I tried to buy new pads when I got the rebuilt OEM calipers but they gave me 14mm thick ones SO I didn't change the pads. That is one thing common to before and after the new calipers.
I'm ordering the proper 10mm thick ones but will try a pad switch, left/right in the meantime to see if the pull follows the pad set. Might be a glazed pad set on one side.


John ,,if it’s bad enough to pull you would see it on visual.

I think you have a hydraulic or caliper issue. Did you bleed out of the right bleed screw and not touch the other one? I think it’s the top one but a Bay expert who doesn’t have CRJS will chime in and correct me.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:26 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

John S. wrote:
Nearly a daily driver.
...
I'm wondering if, after nearly forty eight years, the metal lines
and tee (front, left to right) might be a bit corroded/clogged.

Once and only once in 8 years full time mechanicing on T2's, trying to solve your exact problem on a bus and having replaced soft lines, rebuilt calipers etc, out of pure desperation I replaced the solid lines from the T and that cured it. I inspected the ones I removed and couldn't see a problem, but...
You've done everything I had (apart from alignment which didn't help in my case) - the lines are cheap, I'd give it a go - you have nothing to loose.

I think you said your camber notches face rear? They should face the front as a start position. Notches facing the wrong way puts the caster out of spec and could effect the self centering.
Pretty well every bus that came through my workshop had random camber, setting it up properly can make a HUGE difference depending on how far lut is was to begin with. Cheap lowering jobs are often to blame or simply using a garage that isn't equipped or can't be bothered to set it. Very often I'd find both nut notches dead centre, you can be 99% sure the camber hasn't been set when you see that. In extreme with one wheel positive and one negative, the symptoms are pulling towards one side until a little more steering into the pull makes it swerve across the road. Not really your problem as you say it drives straight, but your eccentric nuts are the wrong way round.
Good luck with it. Smile
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John S.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left.... still. Reply with quote

Thanks for the input.
Alignment showed too much toe in and camber being off a bit.
That has all been corrected by a good, old-school alignment shop.
Still pulls (more of a swerve) under harder braking.

OK, the subsequent side-to-side brake pad switch didn't do much.
Also rotated tires, front/back; same-o, same-0.
I'm thinking my junky shocks (installed by the P.O., God knows when) might be causing some of this. Braking to a stop from below 30 mph is straight. Above that (40 to 45 mph) I get some nose dive and swerving.
Also, it now seems to trade sides, sometimes pulling left, sometimes a bit to the right.
Both pads and rotors look unglazed and grip well.
After a hard braking run test drive (just about smoking the brakes) the tenperature of the front wheels is within a few degrees F of each other.

Opinions on the wonky shock absorber theory...?
I'm looking to replace the line from the tee to the right side rubber hose also.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

One side may dip more than the other with a shock problem, but it shouldn’t mess with braking evenness.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

To answer Abscate:
Yes, I bled brakes in the correct sequence (had my Bentley by my side) after flushing old fluid. I did use the top bleeder valve on the calipers as that is proper.

I have replaced the rubber lines back when I got the bus on the road two years ago. One thing I noticed is a slight difference (didn't measure it) in the pads.
The side it pulls toward had somewhat thinner pads so it would make sense that the side with the thicker pads would not be grabbing as hard.
Hydraulic issue, maybe. I think I'll order a new tee and all the metal lines for the front brakes. In that way, no stone will be unturned on the front brakes.
As Zed999 said a couple posts ago, it is cheap enough and I just want to solve this conundrum. Confused

PS: I believe the shocks are toast also. I can confirm that later.
If I can get the pull during braking fixed new shocks will only help with stability going forward.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

check the adjustment in the rear to be sure that it is even. The dive left dive right thing sounds like the rears are trying to lock up so that end wants to swap with the front. Make sure also that the rears aren't too tight so that they want to lock. You can get out on a vacant street with no one around you, no cars etc., get up to 35 or so and just slam on the brakes. When the bus stops get out and look right behind each tire to see if any were skidding unevenly. You should have an even application of rubber on the pavement behind each tire. Also - do you carry anything unusual in the back that is heavy?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

I know it's a pain in the ass, but have you tried swapping front rotors to see if it changes?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

As for the rears I have them adjusted (redid all the hardware and adjusters).
I tested the "evenness" of the rears by stopping by just pulling on the emergency brake; stops were arrow straight.
The rears do not lock up at all.
The e-brake was adjusted also after setting the rears.
Nothing out back but a stock 1600 DP.

I have switched the pads, not rotors.
Both rotors were brand new and properly bedded with the current pads about 5,000 miles ago. What might I gain by switching rotors?
I checked them yesterday when I switched pads; they don't look glazed or worn at all.


Last edited by John S. on Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

Last year I replaced sticky calipers on my F250. Still pulled but not constantly. Pads and rotors "looked great." Long story short, rotors were glazed and reacted with increased heat. They didn't look it. After getting the rotors turned an installing new pads, it was completely fixed and hasn't pulled since.

Since you've tried just about everything, maybe switching rotors will change the pulling to the other side???
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

OK, I see what you mean about switching rotors.
It's not that much of a PITA if it can enable me to find an assignable cause.

Before I get too involved I might just deglaze the rotors and pads....
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

Wait Wait!
Don't leave your loyal readers hanging.
These threads read like mystery novels.
They live on forever.

I for one have this exact problem and have replaced the same parts.
Still, my VW pulls to the left when braking (locking up the left front wheel with only moderate pedal pressure.)

You can't just leave us in a lurch.
We want to know how you fixed it.
We want to know that there is resolution and peace and happiness in the world.
How will we ever sleep at night?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

Dwighia wrote:
my VW

Which one?, there's a few on your list.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

My brake problem is with a '68 Ghia which also has disc brakes in the front, and drums in the back. Since the basic components are the same, I was hoping the Bus solution would also help me.

I have 6k miles on new pads, rotors and calipers.
New hoses all around (the rear hoses were almost completely blocked -see pix).
New wheel cylinders and shoes in the rear.
Continuing to adjust rears until the shoes break in.
Bled, bled, bled.

Mine is pulling hard to the left (and locking front left wheel with moderate pressure), so I suspect that the right front as the culprit.

Based on the most recent post about glazing, I scuffed up the right brake pads last night and 1/2 of the disc/rotor (couldn't reach the back side).
This seemed to help somewhat.
However, it still pulls to the left, only less so.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

The parking cable pull test may not yield the result ones looking for. The handle actuates the brakes via the cables whereas the brake pedal via the wheel cylinders.

Having the rear brakes adjusted is very important otherwise it will have more pulling force left or right depending on which side is under/over adjusted.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

Dwighia wrote:
My brake problem is with a '68 Ghia which also has disc brakes in the front, and drums in the back. Since the basic components are the same, I was hoping the Bus solution would also help me.

I have 6k miles on new pads, rotors and calipers.
New hoses all around (the rear hoses were almost completely blocked -see pix).
New wheel cylinders and shoes in the rear.
Continuing to adjust rears until the shoes break in.
Bled, bled, bled.

Mine is pulling hard to the left (and locking front left wheel with moderate pressure), so I suspect that the right front as the culprit.

Based on the most recent post about glazing, I scuffed up the right brake pads last night and 1/2 of the disc/rotor (couldn't reach the back side).
This seemed to help somewhat.
However, it still pulls to the left, only less so.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


did you rebuild the calipers? replace with aftermarket rebuilt ones? If you didn't rebuild the calipers that may be it. I like to make sure that the piston slides freely in the bore before putting the seals in. Once I had a new car that always pulled. Dealer never could find it. Harder the brakes were used the more it pulled. When I started racing we collected lots of spare parts for that model sports car. One day I rebuilt them and decided that the piston in the side opposite seemed a little tighter than the other so I grabbed a bunch of used caliper pistons and fitted them on that side until the two sides felt about the same with the seals out. Finished the calipers and the pulling was gone. We had a brake caliper seize in Vicksburg MS on the way back to CA. The dealer worked on it under warranty but didn't have the parts to replace the calipers per Mercury warranty so they put in new pads and we had the calipers replaced here in California when we got home. In later reading on the cause of the brake recall it was not enough grease on the caliper pins so the caliper couldn't slide to release. All the dealer had to do was grease the pins - a 1 minute task when they replaced the pads and rotor under warranty. ANYTHING that interferes with a smooth action of the caliper piston, or the caliper sliding will cause a pulling problem. In a bus there is a piston on each pad. Make sure they both slide freely in their bores before putting the seals in. I use 2000 grit wet and dry to buff the piston. Go around and not up and down. should be spotless and shiny, I use 300, then 800, then 2000 on the inside of the caliper bore to get it nice and clean of rust etc., then spray with brake cleaner, compressed air and test fit. Buying re-manufactured calipers is a crap shoot.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

John S. wrote:
My suspension is tight, or so it seems.
The problem is up front; proven by the straight braking using only the E brake.
I think by putting on two new rebuilt calipers I can hopefully rule out sticky calipers.
I am planning on an alignment as soon as humanly possible.
I did notice some slight wear "rounding" if you will, on the outside of the left tire when I had it off today. Not horrible but the tire didn't want to stand tall on the tread when off the bus and kept leaning toward the outside edge.
I redid a lot of things when I got the bus including a new set of Hankook RA08 tires.
So whatever wear there is has happened in less than 10,000 miles; perhaps the camber is positive on the left side. This may have caused the tire to start wearing and any positive camber effects may be exaggerated when braking.


If the suspension ball joints are worn on the left side, the toe-in and camber may be going all over the place as you brake, and the wheel swings backwards on the suspension when it should hold straight as you brake.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

Well I am sorry I took so long to get back to this thread.
Been driving cross country to my daughter's wedding.
Sadly not in my Ghia or Vanagon.
But back to the issue at hand.

Much thanks to all who responded and kept this thread going.
It was very important to me and helped me think through the process.
In fact, the troubleshooting process is what intrigues me the most.

So, again, back to the problem with Bus/Ghia pulling to the left.
Here's my solution.
But background first:
I don't really brake very often.
I drive slow, anticipating stops, and downshift.
So over the years I never noticed my horribly clogged rear brake hoses.
Over time, the brake shoes got glazed from never being fully engaged.
Also over time, my right front brake pads also got glazed such that only the left front pads were actually doing any work.
After some spirited drives on Skyline Drive in Virginia I hit the brakes hard enough and often enough that for some reason the left pad got de-glazed and the right pads remained glased and not doing much work, if any.
Thus'ly the Ghia started pulling hard to the left.
And I got annoyed.

Solution:
I pulled off the right brake pads and scuffed them up with heavy sand paper.
I also replaced the rear brake shoes.
I drove up to about 45 mph many times and repeatedly hit the brakes hard.
At first they still pulled to the left.
Then slowly they improved until there was no pulling to either side!!
I also adjusted my new rear shoes many times.

Amazingly my brakes are fixed.
Thanks again for all the folks who helped me think through this problem.
Dwight

...And they all lived happily ever after.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulling to the left. Reply with quote

Hello all, I'm a bit late to the party but wanted to offer my results in a similar situation. '71 bay window pulled dramatically to the left under braking, then after consistent pedal pressure, the vehicle would eventually brake more equally.

I've been steadily repairing/upgrading components on m'bus, having done the following on the front end: New calipers, rotors, pads, and wheel bearings. After all this, it was still pulling hard to the left. The next step was then to replace the flexible brake line to the caliper on the right side, which instantly remedied the issue. It was quite evident that the flexible line had degraded to a point where fluid was not flowing through effectively, as others have shown on this thread.

I had initially thought the caliper was simply sticking on the right side, but it was in fact the restricted flow of fluid that was ultimately the problem. Thus, if you have this issue and don't know how old your flexible lines are, I'd recommend replacing them first thing.

Cheers!
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