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simon varley Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2020 Posts: 175 Location: Geelong Australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:55 pm Post subject: KDA engine number |
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I know there are hundreds of these 'what is my engine' threads, so apologies.
The original engine number has been deliberately defaced, but now that it is partially stripped I can see that there is another number stamped on the casing below
Can anyone confirm that this KDA is an Australian exchange engine? From other forums it looks like it stands for KundenDienst Australien
I'm just a little surprised it wasn't stamped in the original location. Would that imply that this was a factory rebuild at some time using the case from another engine?
so far I've no idea exactly what it is. Heads will be coming off soon, and as it is from a 63 Ghia I'm expecting a 1200. Not sure if it should be a 36 or a 40hp though. What's the easiest way to tell? |
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sgmalt46 Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2005 Posts: 1293 Location: south san francisco
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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the generator stand is removable so not a 36hp. 40hp if it was original to the 63 Ghia. heads will tell you what it is and piston size since your taking the heads off. should be marked 77mm. 76.98 to be exact. could be anything though.
Steve. _________________ 55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG |
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simon varley Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2020 Posts: 175 Location: Geelong Australia
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:56 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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it's not unusual to get a surprise or two when stripping an engine and sometimes the surprises are even nice Trouble is that this one has left me with a quandry.
as you can see, the engine is clearly NOT the 1200 I was expecting.
the problem is, even though at some point somebody seems to have fitted 1500 pistons and jugs, as far as I can see the heads are still the original 1200. Is that right with the part number here? I've only stuck a ruler on the valves and they seem to be 30/33mm, which would imply a 1300 head, but the part number is for a 1200 according to the Tom Wilson book. If it is a 1200 head, it would have been fly cut to fit the 1500 jugs right?
the case seems to be early too, but again the numbers don't seem to line up with the book. It is a single relief case with what seem to be small 6mm oil pump studs, and 10mm head studs.
so anyway, my conundrum, and the help needed.....
should I just replace the 1500 pistons and cylinders? is there any point to going 1600 if the head is so restricting? I might add that the engine still has the 28 PICT carby so that's even more restricting. If I'm going to need to change heads and carby I might as well just buy a whole new engine - at least I'd have a warranty
thoughts? |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:55 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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Have you measured the pistons and cylinders? Or is it a case of the 1500 rings are no longer available? _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 762 Location: New England
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:16 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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It looks like the sn was ground off and re-stamped, and when the engine was rebuilt again, they didn't want to take any more material from the pedestal base so they obliterated the old sn and stamped a new number on the side.
What's the stroke? 64mm would be 40hp, 69mm is 1300 and up. If you have a 64mm crank that would make your engine a 1400 (about 1385 really). 28 pict is probably too small, but it will run on your engine. 30 pict carbs can be had for under $50. I don't know much about 1200 heads but you can get new 1500/1600sp heads for around $500 a pair. Shipping to Australia might be a deal breaker though. |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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The key to knowing what you have is wrist pin size, 20mm for 40hp, 22mm for 1500/1600. 40hp head ports go straight down from the manifolds and 1500 heads the port is canted toward the pistons at about a 10 degree angle. Dan |
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simon varley Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2020 Posts: 175 Location: Geelong Australia
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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so in summary:
113 101 101 B single relief case
6mm oil pump studs
separate generator housing
113 101 374 square rocker pedestal head
30mm intake ?
33mm exhaust ?
83mm piston
20mm wrist pin
64mm stroke ----- 1385cc ??
con rod 112 105 411A with a 'bump'
109 tooth non o-ring flywheel
28 PICT carby
what I think we have here is a 40hp with a big bore kit. If that's the case then I don't think I'm going to spend too much time and money on it tbh. probably just finish the strip, check bearings, clean and reassemble as-is |
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simon varley Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2020 Posts: 175 Location: Geelong Australia
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:04 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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having cleaned the case some more I found these markings. It's a remanufactured engine, so I assume the SP is just an engine builders reminder that it was a Single Port, but does the W number mean anything to anyone?
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26300 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:35 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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I'm more used to seeing this in the Vintage Speed forum, so I'm only just seeing this thread now.
Yes that's a big bore 40HP. I've run a number of these in my 62 in the 32+ years I've owned the car. Pretty good running engine actually. And this has the better square boss heads.
Looks like the original engine number was milled off.
Does this engine case have camshaft bearings?
By the way, for a while, VW did use date stamps for the casting of the block. You find this on the "front" side of the case, front of car that is, the side that points towards the flywheel.
W stamps are an unknown production code. They can occur on either rear-facing side of the case and there is always another letter or number after the W. I wonder if this was a W6 stamp that someone added onto, as the numbers after the W6 appear to be from a different stamping. (however I would expect the W6 to be more lined up against each other) A couple of examples from my archives:
_________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 762 Location: New England
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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That "W" number doesn't look like any VW factory or dealer stamp I've seen. The W and P on the number under the distributor hole appear to have serifs, none of the factory stamps I've come across do. Here's a W stamp on a 1959 36hp case for comparison.
The SP stamp does look like VW stamp font but I don't know enough to say for sure. I would guess that the "W" number is from a machine shop or non VW factory/dealer rebuilder. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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Clean this up a little better and magnify the mark in the yellow square.
It may not help you but may be interesting. I have found lots of "hieroglyphic" stamps on engine cases.
Ray |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 762 Location: New England
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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That is the best close up i can get with my phone, but that stamp is a tiny VW logo with 9M58 underneath. There is another one lower on the pedestal that has 9A33 under the logo. I have been told these are inspection stamps. If you look under the P on the SP stamp on Simon Varley's case you can see what looks to be one of these stamps.
Here are a couple of W stamps from late 60s cases I have, you can see the bottom of the W became flattened but still no top or bottom serif.
1966 H0 case with WC or 0 stamp under the generator pedestal. A more rounded bottom on the W.
1969 H5 case with W4 under the fuel pump. The bottom of the W is now very flat now and the 4 has changed shape from the late 50s version.
And a couple more from the gallery.
From the gallery, a 1964 case. Kind of blurry but still looks like a pointy W.
From the gallery an early 1961 40hp.
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simon varley Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2020 Posts: 175 Location: Geelong Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:01 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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that's great information guys thanks. I was gong to put this one back together with the basic work, but it might then be worth spending a little more time on it. The bottom end especially seems to have been balanced again by someone.
no cam bearings so it may be worth getting them added
here are some more pics including a close up of the quality stamp
the case dates on the end face don't match. 24-10-32 and 26-10-32. so that makes it 24th and 26th October, 1962 then? the engine is a year older than the car
the stamped 3-digits on the top flange however do match - those are the important ones right? to prove the two case halves were machined together?
also, there is another W code stamped under the original engine number. WB
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26300 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:23 am Post subject: Re: KDA engine number |
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Okay, since I had not seen that WB before, and since I kind of discounted that other W stamp previously because the number was not in line with it, the WB is the factory "whatever" stamp.
Now the flywheel area casting date stamps. Those read: date, month, shift/year. So 26 10 32 is October 26 Third shift 1962... and 24 10 32. That would be October 24 1962 Third Shift production.
So these would be from early in model year 1963 production.
Yeah, the lack of cam bearing shells often results in lower oil pressure when the engines put a lot of miles on them.
I'm glad I have a factory remanufactured block in my 62, a 61 engine but it also features a genuine VW remanufactured serial number... and factory refitted cam bearing shells (the case halves were "planed" and that's why they put the P stamp by the crank pulley)
_________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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