What do you guy find wrong with the Chinese IDF copies?

[Clatter]

When Torbin mentions "classical uneven height main jet seats" I see something useful to check.
This kind of thing matters; plus it's a known issue?


The big trouble with these, and many other aftermarket parts,
Is that even though they might look good on inspection visually,
It's no guarantee that they are dimensionally correct, or metallurgically proper.

Things being machined wrong can sometimes be corrected with some skill.
Metallurgy not so much..


Dirty inside, floats off, scuffed up on mating surfaces, or something like that I'll take over just plain 'built wrong' any day.

Made of dried toothpaste, cut with crappy tooling, numbers way out - another story altogether.

Sometimes looks can deceive.
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[Ohio Tom]

[[email protected]]

[VWporscheGT3]

[Rome]

This past Monday I had the day off, and drove to Bill's for the final chapter on the IDF installation. We adjusted the CB Performance linkage down-rods but could not get full throttle; got only about 80%. Down-rods are vertical. There was an approx. 1/4" gap for the throttle arm to reach the full throttle stop pad on the carb. After priming the carbs with the electric fuel pump until fuel squirted out of the pump jets, the engine only needed about 2 seconds of cranking until it started. Ran smoothly and did not cough... first sign that the mixture was rich on the cold engine. Once warm, I adjusted the idle speed and mixture. Hmm- mixture screws go all the way in and the engine speed rises. To me that means the 50 idle jets are too rich... We set the linkage so that both carbs opened at same time so that the engine revved smoothly and cleanly. Then took car out on test drive. Could tell immediately that there was power left behind but at part throttle the engine accelerated smoothly. We decided to call it a day for now.

In my small collection of spare Weber idle jets which I brought along, I had nothing smaller than the 50's that came with those carbs. So with VWporscheGT3's experience above, a set of 47.5 or even 45's will be on our shopping list.

So with all the efforts we put in, we'll try a few different things such as using different throttle arms on which the down-rod attaches slightly closer to the throttle shaft. With the same amount of down-rod movement, the shorter throw will cause the throttle arm to rotate more.

[j-dub]

[Lingwendil]

My CSP IDF linkage just came in (ordered July 12th, received July 14th, with free shipping option )

So I was wanting to strip the engine to pull it soon anyway due to a bad oil cooler seal. Maybe I'll compare the included CIP1 kit linkage to the CSP while my Kadrons are out I have a stock doghouse shroud and curious to if the CIP1 product description claim that the linkage bases will not clear the shroud is true.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[nextgen]

Hi Rome and Lingwendil,

I have used many different Linkage kits thru the years and there are many variables.

The same linkage may work on one car perfectly and may need adjustments on others. Some hit the Gen/ Alt, some just engine sheet metal is slightly higher or lower. Manifolds are a big change. I went from my favorite 914 tall aluminum Manifolds that came with my Dells that cleared everything except it made made my carbs adjustment screws hard to get at so I went with ugly, lower cast iron manifolds. I had to make mods to clear my alternator.
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[Bubbalobill]

I bought a CSP linkage some years ago and has been very satisfied with it, hade to add a homemade returnspring to get it to close again, but otherwise a 95% product.

Yesterday I installed a CSP returnspring to the linkage and the difference it made, wow. Can't understand why it wasn't there from the start. A 50 cent spring, cost me $10 plus shipping to buy.

Now it is a 200% feeling to what it was without the spring.


To topic, I just ran a set of fajs through the ultrasound washer. Looks Good enough, only one of the pair had the top faced bit it is smooth enough to seal with gasket. Ordered some italian jets and floatvalves for them. Original floatvalves are rubber, why the f***? Rubber these days are bad enough when not used as an essential part of the engine.

The chinesium jets är starting to pile up.

[Lingwendil]

The Kadron CSP linkage that I ordered included a return spring built into the pivot, and it appears the IDF unit does as well. Hopefully this will fit and work well, the linkage on my Kadrons from them worked excellent and was a breeze to install and adjust.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Bubbalobill]

[Rome]

[AlteWagen]

My set of 36DRLAs had developed another drip (cant complain after 31 years and over 300K of use) and it was time to deal with it before it damaged the engine. Since a nice core carb is the same price as the set of clones in Romes link I thought Id roll the dice.

Broke them down to measure everything I could and see if there were any issues. Jet stack heights were all even, all jets measure out to what is marked, bowl VERY clean with no residue or trash, throttle plates centered in bore, progression holes are even. Other area of concern was the main jet stack seat, I marked the jet face and verified correct seal all the way around the jet. The only thing found was the float heights were a few mm off, but the floats themselves seem like normal float material not rubber. Did a primitive scratch hardness test and compared against the HPMX and Italian IDFs, these seem equal or better than the IDFs and WAY harder than the soft HPMXs!! Ive worked with a lot of carbs over the years and these are nice!

Took an hour or so to blueprint the carbs and two hours to swap them in. It took more time to clean my old manifolds and air cleaner assemblies than to actually swap them in/out. I left the 50 idle jet and reamed out the main to 120. Primed the bowls and it started right up! Being used to the dells I had the mixture screws out too far and ran a bit rough at first but at a turn and a half out it cleaned up and idles perfect at 800rpm. Synched almost perfect on bench settings only needing a quarter turn to the idle speed screw to even from side to side on the meter.

Ive had them on the bus for a few weeks now and have over 400 miles on them with ZERO issues. I will admit the overall power is down a bit with the 28mm vents vs. the 30mm vents in the DRLAs but the off idle torque has dramatically improved. Seemed to pick up a few mpg on the last tank even with the fat 50s. I have a set of 52s but never thought Id need anything smaller than 50s but will try some 47s and see if that helps at all.

Only things I changed was the stacks as they were pretty big and used the stock small stacks that came with the dells and enlarged the idle vacuum port to improve signal.

Just one complaint and it has nothing to do with the carbs. My CB cross bar linkage has been in use as long as the carbs. Over the years Ive replaced most of it (upgraded to steel bar, new joints, new rods, new pivots)and now finally one of the arms itself has worn out. Just ordered the CSP linkage and to update NO the new billet version does not come with the spring and has to be ordered separately.

It took 20 years but looks like the china carbs are equal or better quality than the spanish webers. Now time will tell if they last as long but at the given price point if they give me 5 years/80k miles Ill be happy. It seems the lower tier carbs have more issues and lesser quality castings but cost less too.

There is no reason you could not put together a set with these new carbs and some used air filters, manifolds and linkage for more than $200 if you dig. Save yourself some grief and get some new CSP or similar and still be in around $300.

If the 44/48 IDF and 48 IDAs clones are this nice weber has much to worry about.
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[QRP]

I finally got around to actually test driving the 40mm CHI-DFs
They dialed right in and drove just fine!
I gotta admit for 200 bucks a pair I'm sold . . 2 thumbs up!

[Rome]

Here are some more details from my installation help with the clone IDFs from (a year ago! ) Bill's 1776 cc engine. Manifolds are CB Performance, though the details should be checked on any- either brand new or used.

1. Found small nubs on the velocity stack surface where the mounting nuts+washers sit. Filed them off.

2. The flange on the IDF manifold where the lockwasher and nut sit was tilted outwards to one side and "peaked" (yellow reference line). Also had machining nubs sticking up (arrow) from drilling the two holes. We filed them down flat using a file.

3. CB Performance's IDF intake manifold flange at the bottom (head) was much thicker than the one for the ICTs which we removed from the engine. The height difference caused the studs in the head to be not long enough to grip the fastening nuts and lockwashers.

We ended up removing the head studs using double-nut technique and replacing them with approx. 1/2" longer studs (M8 x 1.25 mm) from the HW store. Painted the spark plug insulators with touch-up paint dots (circled) to indicate the cylinders, to prevent mix-up when installing.

4. The same flange was too narrow to enable the lockwasher from sitting concentric with the mounting hole for the head stud. We skimmed off the vertical face of the manifold with the angle grinder's flap disc side edge (marked) so that the removed area was slightly concave. Also utilized a smaller-hex head nut with 11 mm socket diameter and a 1/4" drive swivel head socket with 2 extensions to reach down next to the fan shroud and get to the nuts for tightening, once we ran the nuts down by hand.

5. Ran an M8 x 1.25 mm tap through the carb linkage side mount holes and the 4 holes in the manifold top for the carb mount studs.

6. Swarf on the tap threads from just one of the worst holes!

7. One carb had a small amount of grit (circled) on the accelerator pump membrane. Sprayed carb cleaner on a clean lint-free cloth and wiped off the contact surface of the membrane so that the grit would not work itself through the membrane material during normal operation.

[Lingwendil]

My knockoff manifolds required the same clearancing and filing.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[AlteWagen]

Anyone try these alcohol resistant clones yet? Ive seen some rebuild kits with the HD pump diaphram but the coated casting could really help with todays crappy gas eating o rings and such

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325103539009?epid=10005710631&hash=item4bb1ae5341:g:cTQAAOSwOWhhxAlz
_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[Millionmph]

Looks like I gotta get a Chinese wife so I can get some Tier 1 parts lol

[iamdonquixote]

where to buy these kits?

i see cip1 has several versions - so confusing can't tell difference

i'd like to try a set with csp linkage