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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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The distributor cap seems to be resting crooked on its mount, but it won’t rest in what “should be” the proper straight manner and line up with the mount. Is this something to be concerned about?
Plus, after changing the oil last time, when I first started it up, the car had a hard time staying running when put into gear, and an inordinate amount of throttle was required to prevent the engine from dying. Is this indicative of an underlying issue, or is this to be expected?
The author of The Compleat Idiot’s Guide to Keeping Your Volkswagen Alive suggests always letting the car idle for a bit before driving it. Is this what he is addressing, or is it something I should be worried about?
Thanks for putting up with my dumb questions _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.”
Last edited by Satou on Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31385 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Satou wrote: |
The distributor cap seems to be resting crooked on its mount, but it won’t rest in what “should be” the proper straight manner and line up with the mount. Is this something to be concerned about? |
Yes.
Satou wrote: |
The author of The Compleat Idiot’s Guide to Keeping Your Volkswagen Alive suggests always letting the car idle for a bit before driving it. |
All vehicles will run better, and have less engine wear, the faster they reach optimum running temperature. So don't idle it, drive. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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[quote="Cusser"]
Satou wrote: |
The distributor cap seems to be resting crooked on its mount, but it won’t rest in what “should be” the proper straight manner and line up with the mount. Is this something to be concerned about? |
Yes.
I tried for a good 10 minutes to get the distributor cap to line up properly, but couldn’t get it on. Any suggestions on getting it to sit properly? _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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There's 2 ways the cap goes on, only one lets it sit down on the distributor well, one side has a recess for a raised bump on the side of the distributor at one of the clips. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Insert tab A
Where my finger is pointing
Into tab B
Another view
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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busdaddy wrote: |
There's 2 ways the cap goes on, only one lets it sit down on the distributor well, one side has a recess for a raised bump on the side of the distributor at one of the clips. |
That was the issue. Thanks!
Yet another thing I didn’t know I needed to know _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Annnnnd now the engine won’t start. Period. Oil is good, distributor cap is on straight, but the engine refuses to do anything except turn over. Like I said before, it started with some starter fluid before, but had a hard time idling without throttle or going into gear. Any ideas?
Help! _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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If you had the cap on backwards (tabs not lining up) you'll have to swap the wires 180 degrees after you put it on the correct way. You can't just twist the cap and leave the wires as they were. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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That would make a lot of sense, and was probably a contributing factor, but still no dice (except for what sounded like a backfire while attempting to turn the engine over, which hasn’t happened before)
Thanks. _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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I fixed it!
Turns out three of the wires from the distributor to the spark plugs were mixed up. I referred back to my handy-dandy wiring diagram, and got it all squared away, and it fired right up!
I’m very, very hopeful that this finally fixed it up.
Thanks for all your advice, it was very much appreciated _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31385 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Satou wrote: |
I fixed it!
Turns out three of the wires from the distributor to the spark plugs were mixed up. I referred back to my handy-dandy wiring diagram, and got it all squared away, and it fired right up! |
Well - you did learn a lot, and had the guts to post the fix !!!! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Annnnnd, we’re back.
I had fired it up and let it run enough that I confirmed it worked but didn’t go past idle with the clutch in, so today was the first time that I actually took the car for a spin.
First, some context
Bumpy dirt road and a downward sloping grade to said road.
That being said…
Went out and started the car.
Car ran fantastically, idled with no issues.
Put it in gear, still no issues
Drove it down the driveway and partway along the dirt road, still no issues
Went over a particularly large bump, and the engine totally died.
The generator light came on, presumably because the engine died, but the oil pressure light is completely dead, and won’t light up, period
My best guess is that the bump tweaked something, loose connection etc.
It’s almost like the engine lost gas.
The new fuel pump I bought had an etched arrow pointing into the fuel pump. I assumed that was the gas tank to the fuel pump inlet, but maybe that was incorrect. Was I wrong, and fuel can’t flow backwards?
Plus, come to find out, two of the spark plug wires were swapped, but switching them back didn’t do anything.
I also have yet to adjust the carbeurator, mostly because I also have yet to get it running for a meaningful amount of time.
In summary: Car isn’t running again. Engine seemed to work perfectly until I went over a large bump, and now the engine won’t start at all. Oil pressure light doesn’t work, could be burnt out but might be a symptom of something bigger. Fuel pump lined may need to be reversed and carbeurator may need to be adjusted
Suggestions? The fact it ran well on smooth, level ground makes me wonder if something came loose while driving. No drips evident however. Electrical connection?
It’s kind of irritating this happened, but it all comes with a 50 year old car I suppose. Slow and steady _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Well it wouldn't have made it 2 minutes if the lines were reversed so it seems the pump is plumbed correctly.
Quitting after a big bump says loose wiring somewhere, connect a test light to the #15 wire on the coil, turn on the key and start wiggling stuff I guess..... _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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If ever there was a thread that needed accompanying photos, it's this one _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Folks, know where all your wires go.
I sold another Beetle to a guy who knew what he was talking about, and turns out my coil wire has come undone. The connection was pretty bad and must have finally snapped when I went over that bump.
It fires right up again.
Now, to tune it up, and we should be good to go
(For real this time) _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Satou wrote: |
I fixed it!
Turns out three of the wires from the distributor to the spark plugs were mixed up. I referred back to my handy-dandy wiring diagram, and got it all squared away, and it fired right up!
<...>
Plus, come to find out, two of the spark plug wires were swapped, but switching them back didn’t do anything. |
Are you sure you have the spark plug wires in their correct positions on the distributor cap now? You fixed it earlier and some how the "gremlins" got back in there and swapped wires again.
Consider this... when the #1 cylinder is at the end of its compression stroke... the rotor must be pointing to the #1 spark plug wire on the distributor cap... so it will deliver a spark to the #1 spark plug.
This truth ALWAYS works because it does not depend on pictures or diagrams or preconceived notions of where the #1 plug wire goes on the cap. The above makes sure the distributor delivers a spark to the cylinder that needs a spark... the fundamental function of the distributor.
Once you know where the #1 plug wire is on the distributor cap, the remaining wires are installed 1-4-3-2 in a CW direction around the cap. Mark you spark plug wires with their cylinder numbers at both ends (use lines if you want to keep it inconspicuous. This way you cannot mix up the wires accidentally. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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I am absolutely positive that the spark plug wires are in the correct order. I mixed them up last time because the two lines had a plastic connector linking them behind the carbeurator, which caused me to mix them up.
Now, I have positively linked each spark plug wires with its correct placement _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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Cornwallav8r Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2021 Posts: 39 Location: Central PA
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:31 am Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Satou wrote: |
I most definitely have gas in my oil. After I changed the oil, we hadn’t driven it a mile before the oil pressure light came on, and when I checked the oil, it was way above where it should have been |
Very much likely a fuel pump failure. Leaks right into the crankcase. |
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Cornwallav8r Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2021 Posts: 39 Location: Central PA
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:41 am Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Sounds like a distributor to coil ignition wire knocked loose or similar. When you were in there working, it's very easy to knock plug wires loose, and even jar the distributor cap askew (as you found). For it to die suddenly, it's almost got to be electrical. Check the 12v wires on the coil, check the coil HV wire at both ends for tightness.
For fuel question, remove the air cleaner and cycle the throttle arm quickly, watching/listening for the accelerator pump to spray fuel directly into the throat. If it's doing that, the carb's getting fuel. Swapping plugs to no effect means either ignition entirely out for all plugs, or one or more plugs are fouled.
Satou wrote: |
Annnnnd, we’re back.
I had fired it up and let it run enough that I confirmed it worked but didn’t go past idle with the clutch in, so today was the first time that I actually took the car for a spin.
First, some context
Bumpy dirt road and a downward sloping grade to said road.
That being said…
Went out and started the car.
Car ran fantastically, idled with no issues.
Put it in gear, still no issues
Drove it down the driveway and partway along the dirt road, still no issues
Went over a particularly large bump, and the engine totally died.
The generator light came on, presumably because the engine died, but the oil pressure light is completely dead, and won’t light up, period
My best guess is that the bump tweaked something, loose connection etc.
It’s almost like the engine lost gas.
The new fuel pump I bought had an etched arrow pointing into the fuel pump. I assumed that was the gas tank to the fuel pump inlet, but maybe that was incorrect. Was I wrong, and fuel can’t flow backwards?
Plus, come to find out, two of the spark plug wires were swapped, but switching them back didn’t do anything.
I also have yet to adjust the carbeurator, mostly because I also have yet to get it running for a meaningful amount of time.
In summary: Car isn’t running again. Engine seemed to work perfectly until I went over a large bump, and now the engine won’t start at all. Oil pressure light doesn’t work, could be burnt out but might be a symptom of something bigger. Fuel pump lined may need to be reversed and carbeurator may need to be adjusted
Suggestions? The fact it ran well on smooth, level ground makes me wonder if something came loose while driving. No drips evident however. Electrical connection?
It’s kind of irritating this happened, but it all comes with a 50 year old car I suppose. Slow and steady |
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Satou Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2021 Posts: 57
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: A fuel leak defies all efforts to find the source |
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Turns out the coil wire was knocked loose. The engine is running a little rich, but I’ll just adjust it a bit _________________ “With your first project car, there will be many things you didn’t know you needed to know.” |
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