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GeorgeL Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006 Posts: 7346
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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You can use any combination if the pipes are electrically insulated from the engine. You only get galvanic corrosion if the engine and pipes are electrically connected.
Now, keeping the two electrically isolated might be more than a notion...
I often wonder about some of the newer plastic plumbing materials and whether they could be used to create a reliable automotive cooling system. |
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ftp2leta Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004 Posts: 3271 Location: Montreal
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: |
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There have been a couple of claims in this thread that the inserts have worked their way out of the coolant pipes without the hoses pulling on them. In order for someone to know that with any modicum of certainty, one would have had to initially see the insert intact in it's original position in the pipe (or bought the van new), installed the rubber hose fully in its stock location, driven the van for a while, removed the hose noting specifically that it was still in it's proper location (without anyone else having touched the hose in the meantime) and seen that the insert had protruded out of the plastic and into the rubber hose.
If any of those steps were missing in someone's experience, then it cannot be concluded that the inserts moved on their own, only that they might have. If someone encountered a moved insert and yet a hose fully installed on the coolant pipe, a much more likely explanation, IMO, is that someone else worked on the van at some point in the last 20+ years and either didn't notice that the insert had moved out or didn't care and simply installed the hoses all the way onto the coolant pipe. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9610 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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this thread, from 2010..... 11 years later.
Waldo I now have an '87 van with 43,000 miles, which I doubt anyone has ever touched the coolant pipes. Tempted to take a look at the coolant pipe ends.
================
But on my '90, the ends have migrated out.
This pic is just returning from a 3,000 mile trip, and noticing coolant drips on the ground.
Which could have been a disaster on the freeway.
Clamping the hoses. Also had the van parked on a steep bank.
Here's using a 2x2 wood as a punch (in 2016) to pound them back in.
I couldn't get them to go all the way back in.
4 years later, the connections were dripping again.
I changed to T-bolt style clamps, one clamp for the hose and one clamp for the metal bead. I needed to buy two sizes for this.
You can see the clamp size 44-51, and the one on the plastic is maxed-tight.
Also note that my 'inserts' are still somewhat 'inserted'.
You can't just add clamps if they are fully 'out there' like in the above pics.
You have to pound them back in, so you are clamping on steel.
Not just collapsing plastic.
Note that the plastic bead remains on one insert, an on the other, the plastic is gone from the bead.
Also this is as far as I could get them to insert.
You can't hit the insters with a steel hammer, you will crush them and it won't seal.
You have to use a wooden punch, or some method to protect their shape.
There are four joints and it's good to have four @41-46mm for the plastic and four @44-51mm for the bead.
And note that the bead with no plastic is smaller than the bead with plastic.
If you bought a set of eight 41-46mm you could perhaps chip off all the plastic off the beads. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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squeegee_boy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008 Posts: 762 Location: Langley, BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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Yeah, we discovered this too on a friends '88, and my wife's '90. Untouched stock pipes. They both went with SS pipes and it's been smooth sailing ever since.
Robyn
PS: And to answer the RJES post up thread, I've had SS pipes since ~2007 with absolutely zero corrosion problems, and I know several other people with similar experiences. The concerns are unfounded. Just change the coolant. _________________ 1984 FrankenSyncro Westy. EJ25 RMW kit
1971 Super Beetle with an EJ22. Oh yes. Daily driver |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9610 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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Stainless steel is a poor choice of material by its galvanic voltage, and especially due to the large physical size and surface area. The area of the SS pipes could approach 30% of the wetted metals area.
I think Stainless Steel has stood the test of time in our DIY engineered conversions for two reasons one of which falls under the category of “luck”.
1) because the coolant is not 10-30 years old as Robyn has mentioned. And perhaps the coolant is replaced at a reasonable interval by some owners cognizant of the poor choice of materials paired. And perhaps wise to other problems caused by old coolant with its corrosion prevention additives depleted.
2) because the SS is not electrically connected to the aluminums (engine, radiator, heater cores). Its not grounded to the van. This is one case where a poor, corroded ground connection works in your favor. 👍🏽
Adding reliable electrical insulation at all possible chassis contact points is wise.
And maintaining an eagle-eye to AVOID any electrically connections in the future repairs, upgrades, mods.
With a big scare in 2016, and a tickle in 2020, I now have a set of GoWesty SS pipes waiting for their day to be installed,
Ideally before the next leak. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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squeegee_boy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008 Posts: 762 Location: Langley, BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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Sodo wrote: |
2) because the SS is not electrically connected to the aluminums (engine, radiator, heater cores). Its not grounded to the van. This is one case where a poor, corroded ground connection works in your favor. 👍🏽
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I took literally no precautions for this, zero. In fact mine are held tightly to the body with stainless pipe strapping in two places. If this was going to be a problem, it would have shown up already. Probably a decade ago.
I'm well aware of how GC works, (I make adult beverages in shiny things with lots of tubes), but I have yet to actually see it happen in a Vanagon. I change the coolant every 2 years.
Robyn _________________ 1984 FrankenSyncro Westy. EJ25 RMW kit
1971 Super Beetle with an EJ22. Oh yes. Daily driver |
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unclekenz Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2009 Posts: 37 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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The OP is asking only about the pipe ends, fair enough too.
So the four pipe ends mate up to four rubber hoses.
The SS fanboys never mention in their blatherings that changing to SS pipes, you end up with EIGHT SS pipe ends mating up with EIGHT rubber hoses.
By my count, that makes double the number of potential leaky joints.
Well that's a brilliant solution right there eh fellas.
Last edited by unclekenz on Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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The stainless steel pipe ends don't pull out and dump all your coolant. Even with 8 connections instead of 4, the stainless pipes are far more reliable than the plastic hoses. |
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unclekenz Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2009 Posts: 37 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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?Waldo? wrote: |
The stainless steel pipe ends don't pull out and dump all your coolant. Even with 8 connections instead of 4, the stainless pipes are far more reliable than the plastic hoses. |
Well that's rubbish.
So in retort you choose to conveniently ignore the achilles heel being the rubber hoses contribution to joint failure, not only at these coolant pipe joints but throughout the whole coolant reticulation on every van over the past 30-40 years.
So I take it, by your reckoning then, adding four MORE leakers is a good thing. Righto.
Last edited by unclekenz on Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:26 am; edited 4 times in total |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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I'm ignoring nothing, except your trolling at this point. |
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unclekenz Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2009 Posts: 37 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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?Waldo? wrote: |
I'm ignoring nothing, except your trolling at this point. |
Not at all.
Unlike you, I'm stating the facts of the matter and you don't like it, hence your petulance.
You ... in having chosen to play the role of agent provocateur in this topic, earns you NO browny points.
It is at best a silly irritant to the community.
Do yourself a favour, cease and desist ok.
Last edited by unclekenz on Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:31 am; edited 4 times in total |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Jeffrey Lee Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2014 Posts: 1488 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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unclekenz wrote: |
You ... in having chosen to play the role of agent provocateur in this topic, earns you NO browny points. |
Though almost always willing to engage in dialectic debate on nearly any relevant topic here, Waldo can hardly be considered an "agent provocateur in this topic," considering the long-term reliability and nearly universal acceptance of these SS replacement pipes ...
unclekenz wrote: |
... at best a silly irritant to the community.: |
HA! Thank you, unclekenz, for a hearty and sorely needed guffaw! |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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unclekenz wrote: |
?Waldo? wrote: |
The stainless steel pipe ends don't pull out and dump all your coolant. Even with 8 connections instead of 4, the stainless pipes are far more reliable than the plastic hoses. |
Well that's rubbish.
So in retort you choose to conveniently ignore the achilles heel being the rubber hoses contribution to joint failure, not only at these coolant pipe joints but throughout the whole coolant reticulation on every van over the past 30-40 years.
So I take it, by your reckoning then, adding four MORE leakers is a good thing. Righto. |
Multiple hoses and connections are one of the big complaints about these old units.
Being aware of this hatred for hoses and clamps, I always chuckle when some of these same hose haters promote engine oil coolers and transmission oil coolers!
What do they think?
"These cooling hoses are crap and leak all the time! But my oil hoses and connections are perfect and carry no risk of failure!" ?!?
Given the choice of losing oil or coolant...... I'm opting for coolant without question.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Igeo Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018 Posts: 888 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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These connections give us the (4) additional clamps. I don't see it as failure prone. Much more secure than what I had before! _________________ 1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9610 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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This is a strange discussion.
Old plastic pipes that are failing require replacement.
New plastic pipes would likely last 30 years.
But they’re not available.
The two middle hose connections on SS pipes have been around for long enough to know that we don’t need to hoist a reliability flag. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16504 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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Sodo wrote: |
This is a strange discussion.
Old plastic pipes that are failing require replacement.
New plastic pipes would likely last 30 years.
But they’re not available.
The two middle hose connections on SS pipes have been around for long enough to know that we don’t need to hoist a reliability flag. |
But the horror! Four more connections!
And calling folks SS fanboys is not trolling of course. Just giving logical discourse I suppose. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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sad thing is the troll doesn't realize many thermostats and water pumps have SS components in them _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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unclekenz Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2009 Posts: 37 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant pipe ends...salvageable or junk...? |
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djkeev wrote: |
Well, we know some things with certainty.
The old steel pipes rust out.
The new plastic pipes eject the ends. |
Nothing new here, why repeat it ad nauseum? It's simply needing attention one way or t'other.
djkeev wrote: |
And to date the newest stainless pipes seem to be doing just fine, though time will eventually judge them fully.Dave |
With emphasis on the "seem", so speculation at best.
My OEM coolant pipes, new in 1989 and requiring maintenance service only once since in 2012, remain non-leakers still in 2022.
That's 33 years and counting of reliability and peace of mind. What's not to like?
SS fanboys .... I need a fact check. Tell me how many SS coolant pipe installs now endowed with eight leak points have yet reached the grand young age of 33 years? |
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