Bosch 010 problem. Loose floppy advance mechanism?

[evanfrucht]

What would that cause? I assume the car would still run?

What is the cause/repair/parts needed to fix the weights flopping around very easily? (OR is that somehow normal?) I can see two springs which appear to be in the proper place.

I'm helping out a neighbor with a newly acquired oval that drives ok in general but with a terrible stumble and hesitation off idle and in the lower rpms. I dont know much about the 010 in specific but I just took a look at MY OWN 010 core that I'm going to rebuild and put in my new engine eventually and sure enough I cannot get the the advance mechanism weights to flop around by shaking it or moving shaft, etc. ON HIS I CAN... So I'm starting to think that is the problem....

Any thoughts or insights here?

Can someone post an exploded diagram of the advance mechanism on this distributor?
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1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )

[mikedjames]

Some Bosch distributors will have begun their lives with plastic spacers round the pegs in the distributor where the springs are attached to the weights. I suppose to stop it rattling.
When those spacers vanish, the springs start rattling about as they are now slightly too long, and the weights can move a little before the springs take over.

However, I would guess that the flat spot is more to do with carburettor jetting, or the accellerator pump on a stock carburettor not being setup to match the needs of the engine.

Even small things like winding out the idle mixture screw slightly after setting the Lean Best Idle can make a difference to the hesitation of the engine.
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1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[tasb]

There are a few possibilities. The weights pivot on a pin. There isn't usually enough wear in the pin to cause the slop you describe. If the weights should come off the pivot pin due to a missing hair pin you'd get the condition you describe.

Another possibility is that the advance spring(s) have broken free of the points cam assembly end. You can test this possibility by twisting the points cam if it springs back to it's resting position the springs are still intact.

\

If the springs are overstretched or so far out of adjustment that they are slack all the time - as in rebuilt by an amateur, this could also lead to the result. If after twisting the points cam is feeble then this condition is likely. The spring back should be rather snappy.

In the cases above the engine could still idle but stepping on the gas would cause a stumble or stall due to lack of spark advance.

mikedjames is correct except that 010's are a bit too early to have any plastic in the assembly.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[evanfrucht]

Thank you such much for the help so far. I think it's something like a pin came out or a spring came off of somewhere it was supposed to be. Its flopping around big time. I'll take a closer look next time I get over there. He bought the car sight unseen and then it arrived with this issue... he just wants to be able to drive it.

I noticed his pump shots where not in sync, I fixed that already... it improved driveability slightly but did not solve the primary issue. I suspected carbs briefly but now don't think so anymore. He had a lot of issues to begin with (like a loose distributor clamp missing the nut ) I thought surely that was it... or his worn out points and ancient condenser... or carbs, yet process of elimination brought me back to square one. Suspect number 010....

Tasb, I think you've reassured me that I found his problem (or almost found it) It idles ok but it stumbles badly in the low rpms, mostly apparent in 1st and 2nd gear. Once you get past 2500 or 3000 rpms it springs back to life (pun intended, maybe? )
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1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )

[tasb]

With a spring unattached the points cam will still advance with enough centrifical force but not fully return to rest when the centrical force is reduced. I'd put the ancient condenser back into service if there were no obvious physical faults. Brand new condensers are not to be trusted these days.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[evanfrucht]

If I just tipped his distributor on it side or shook it back it forth the little weights, or atleast one of them, just flopped around. Kinda made a clicking sound too as it tapped something... like a stop tab or even the housing... I'll have to take a closer look to be sure.

Based on what you say I have a feeling the pin came loose maybe? The problem is that is seems to advance fully with just a gently twist. And it also the weight doesn't seem to be returning? Maybe the mechanism is returning properly with the springs but the weight is disconnected?

Good point about the old condenser. It's not getting thrown away. I mainly meant it looked like it hadn't been replaced recently so wanted to eliminate that possibility.
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1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )

[Glenn]

Broken springs.

Take the cap off and twist the rotor, is there any tension? Does it snap back?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[evanfrucht]

[Glenn]

Remove the points, the pass thru bolt for the points and then the (3) M4 screws holding the breaker plate. You'll see what the problem is then.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[EVfun]

I had a 36 horse Bug distributor like that. I don't know when it happened, sometime after the last point replacement I guess. I could turn the engine over by hand with a test light on the points and it looked like it was right at the 7.5 degree mark on the pulley. I could start the engine and hit it with a strobe and the mark on the pulley was "way over there" so somewhere around 25 degrees at idle. My guess is that the point drag on the cam kept the advance pulled off at zero rpm, but even idle speed advanced it all the way. It seemed to run OK, but that kind of advance likely would have been a problem if the compression wasn't below 7 to 1. One of the fine rebuilders who posts on theSamba fixed me up with a rebuilt distributor.
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[heimlich]

If the weights are moving up and down instead of side to side there are a few pieces:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2164973
or this depending on which shaft is currently in there:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2164971

Then on top of that is this:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2366673
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2212660


If the top part of the shaft is moving up and down there are shims and washers.
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Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)

[heimlich]

[Glenn]

[heimlich]

[Glenn]

3000+ and not a single failure.

Spring steel is very resilient
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[heimlich]

I guess we both have our own unique path to perfection.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)

[Lingwendil]

I've found one single broken spring in a 010 before, and it was right at the first coil. The entire unit was very, very rusty.
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[heimlich]

[Glenn]

[evanfrucht]

Ok so I found the issue and was able to fix it. One of his springs was not attached to one of the the little tabs toward the outside. Now I was actually able to time it correctly and it made a very significant difference.

The car is now driveable but there is still a very slight flat spot around 1500 rpms that last for a split second... you do need to rev it up a fair bit to take off smoothly in first gear. I'm wondering how normal that is... this is an old original Okrasa engine, I think only 1300cc. It also has the original crash box transmission. What is also weird is that the flat spot is not noticeable in reverse. It zips right out the driveway with ease, just off idle... but when I try to take off in first gear it requires a good amount of gas and reving up as I release the clutch. I'm used a much more powerful engine so I'm wondering if this is simply normal, nature of the beast, etc. Or if there is a likely a clear problem with carbs or something? It's much better now and sounds good and smooth when you rev it up in neutral, it's just has a slight flat spot under load.
_________________
1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )