Vanagon camper pulls left

[HackAl]

Last weekend was the first time I took a long drive without my wife and daughter. Just our small dog who sat in the back. We drove three hours from New Jersey to Vanagons in the Valley in Pennsylvania, which we loved.

The whole time there and back I noticed a persistent pull to the left. Not intense, but enough to get annoying after a while. Air pressure in all tires is fine. I'm running 4-year-old, low mile Nokians, new 16" GoWesty rims.

I read here that Vanagon campers have a tendency to pull right due to weight distribution of the camping equipment. So this is perplexing.

I'm going to get under the van and take a look around but I wanted to check if anybody else experienced anything comparable. I'm also going to find somebody to put in the passenger seat and try again to see what happens.

Is there something obvious I am overlooking?
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91 Westy.

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[Ahwahnee]

I'd start by confirming that toe-in is correct. Does front tire wear appear even and normal on both sides?

[dobryan]

When was the last alignment? I have been driving a Vanagon westy for 22 years with no pull to either side.

We likely saw each other at VIV but so many good folks it is hard to recall.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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[jordauto]

Check tire pressure first, although you said you have. Next try swapping the left and right front tires and see if the pull follows the tire. Then it’s time for an alignment if the pull doesn’t change sides with the tire swap.

[bobbyblack]

Hate to say this, but every Vanagon Camper I have looked at has one front ball joint worn. I've been on the hunt for a good deal for quite a while, even with a handful of them in the yard. Whenever one comes up within 2 or 3 hours drive, I go look. Distinctly, the feel of the front left suspension is worn more than the right in full campers. Not saying yours has this problem, but it seems all too common in my experience. Also, it turns out, that the front lower left, is a harder fix than some mechanics are willing to take on. Thus, a worn front left ball could be your issue. You got to grab this one and give it a good shake, in a few directions. Get your gloves on, go out and grasp the tire at the 6 and 12 o'clock, and wiggle like an oscillation. Then at 9 and 3. Compare against the passenger side. Dollars to donuts the driver side has a lot more play. Sort that out, and then get an alignment. NO WAY an alignment alone will fix a problem with your balls. Any reputable alignment shop would tell you about the problem before doing the work, as you will need to fix the original issue first. Less scrupulous shops will just take your money. BTDT

-bobby
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[bobbyblack]

[jimf909]

[dobryan]

As far as I know directional tires are for better water traction. Basically the tread pattern is designed to pump water out if run in the stated direction. For that reason it is important to run them correctly.

I do not know that they have any characteristic that causes them to behave differently in the dry however. I have never had a directional tire do something weird like pulling if run backwards.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[?Waldo?]

[jordauto]

I think was too brief in my earlier reply. I was only suggesting swapping tires on the affected axle from side to side as a quick test of the tires to see if the pull would follow the tire and not potentially running them backwards for the remaining life of the tire. You may have a tire issue such as a shifted belt or separating tire. Both are unlikely, but its a real quick and easy test. Most likely you have some wear in the front end, such as upper control arm bushings, ball joints or tie rod ends. If the front end parts all check out and the tires check out then you will want to have the alignment checked. Toe and caster can both cause pulling. And lastly in my 30 years as a licensed auto tech I have never seen a directional tire running backwards cause any issues, pulling or otherwise. In my part of BC most people run snow tires in the winter and most of those are directional. Many times customers will bolt on their own winter tires and wheels and put them on backwards. There is no adverse effects at all. Just less bite in the snow and slush. So a quick recap, tire pressure first, then check the front end parts, then try swapping tires to rule out a bad tire, then a wheel alignment. The only other thing that could possibly cause a front end pull would be a brake dragging, which could be caused by a seized caliper piston, seized caliper slides or pads rusted in the carrier and lastly by a brake hose that is collapsed internally holding pressurized brake fluid in the caliper. A quick test would be to go for a short test drive of a few miles and then get out and feel if the brake on the side thats pulling is noticeably hotter than the other brake on that axle. If you have an infrared temperature gun then use that to take a reading of each front brake rotor.

[dobryan]

It makes sense to swap tires side to side to see if the pull follows. Could have a bad tire. The confusion started with the directional tire reference.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[bobbyblack]

Ya, sorry all. I've just been told it was bad, never done it. Thankful that people with experience can correct that !!
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[HackAl]

First off, thanks for all the replies. Life happened, so I was not able to work on your suggestions. I found some time tonight to jack it up and rock the wheels. There is very, very minimal play in three wheels (millimeters) with the exception of the front left which is absolutely solid. All the tires spin freely, with very minimal rub, with the exception of the passenger, rear. I don't know if that's how it should be. I can turn it, but it does not spin like the other ones. I'm assuming that's because that wheel is powered. Is that right? I had brake work done recently, so that's worthy of exploration, as one of you had suggested..

I have not swapped the front right and left wheels yet but I will try that next. In the meantime, I'm contacting a few different alignment shops locally to see if they can also diagnose before doing the alignment. As usual, my problem is that mechanics with Vanagon knowledge in my area are few and far between.

Can anybody deduce anything from the above?

Thanks again. In the meantime, I'm using it and enjoying the hell out of this vehicle.
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91 Westy.

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[dobryan]

If it is in neutral there is no reason for different drag on the rear wheels. But that is unlikely to give the pull you have without overheating a rear brake.

An alignment is $100. Money well spent.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[HackAl]

In the shop now. Maybe e-brake is sticking. We'll know soon.

Intuitively, I would think that a rubbing rear right wheel would cause the van to track right, not left, but maybe I'm wrong.

Will do alignment after we figure our what else is wrong. Either way, the steering wheel is not aligned to the front wheels.
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91 Westy.

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[HackAl]

The rear passenger-side brake was rubbing and the mechanic adjusted. He didn't think the rubbing was significant.

At the alignment shop, they could not get the front passenger-side in spec on the machine. They suspect front passenger-side upper ball joint, tie-rod and control arm the are culprits. I will order for $170, total and they will install.

That's where we are. In the meantime, I'm driving it with the annoying pull. 100 miles tomorrow to see Nathanial Rateliff and the Night Sweats in Upstate, NY.
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91 Westy.

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[HackAl]

So I am chasing this problem now. We replaced the upper passenger control arm, both tie rods, both upper ball joints. We replaced the bushings on the control arm.

They cannot get the van to allign. See below.

They noticed that I was missing eccentric washers. That may have happened when a prior owner installed Bilstein shocks. I can order those.

They also suspect that maybe the front passenger side knuckle / spindle is the culprit. I can't seem to source that anywhere but it looks expensive.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is connected to a recent brake job where we installed new disks and rotors with another mechanic. Rear drums also. Maybe something isn't sitting right? I only noticed the alignment issue after the brake job.

Thanks again for any help with this.

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91 Westy.

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[fxr]

At first glance it looks as though they didn't do the caster first - which the Bentley *insists* upon! Missing the camber washers won't help - but what have you in place of those at the moment? IIRC you must have some sort of washer there...
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300

[HackAl]

[AndyBees]

If the Toe is out bad enough to cause a pull to the Left or Right, wear of the tires will show rather quick. Thus, I seriously doubt Toe alignment is the culprit.
Bad/Wrong Camber setting will cause pulling and it doesn't take much.

Also, don't let the alignment shop overlook rear wheel alignment. Yes, it is there in the Bentley Manual.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.