1969 Sundial Camper Engine Rebuild and Revitalization.

[Calocedrus]

Greetings,

First time posting after lurking for about a month now.

I purchased a 1969 VW Sundial Camper (single carb, 1600) out here in Humboldt County, CA. She has lived within Humboldt County her entire life... so there is rust. This bus has been a dream of mine since I was a youngling and so any labor I put into her is a labor of love.

To date, I have worked to slow down the rust that has eaten away below the windows which has then rusted the bottom of each panel underneath. My main focus is to rebuild the motor which was running when purchased. I didn't want to wonder if and when it was going to break down. I also wanted to use it as a learning experience.

My first question is about the case. It seems that the engine letter code starts with PO written in a different direction from the rest of the identification numbers. I have posted pictures trying to capture it. From my research this case is from a Type III? I am wondering what, if any, problems could arise from this. It is clear that someone did work to this engine in the past.

I guess this post will also serve as my introduction to this community. Here are some photos of the exterior, interior, and where I am at with the engine teardown. Currently cross-referencing this forum, the Hayne's Manual, and Tom Wilson's book.

She has a great smile, but underneath that bumper is some nasty, nasty rust.

Based on appearances, these GEX heads were added somewhat recently. I don't believe that the PO had done any engine work for the past 5+ years of his ownership.

On the last picture you can see there is a gouge out of the case where I slipped taking the crank pulley off. Will this cause any issues or oil leakage with the generator pedestal?

[cmonSTART]

What rust??

Good looking Bus - good luck with the build!
_________________
'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[alman72]

never noticed a penthouse top with a rear window before...nice! i have a late top, and you only really ever see pics from the side, so maybe all early tops had this...
nice looking bus. Always liked sundials. i love all camper conversions

[Calocedrus]

alman 72- The zippers are very difficult to move and I'm pretty sure that is duct tape around the frame of that window! You can see in that back left corner how the wood has separated from the canvas. That is keeping the whole pop-top from being square and I think it allows it to overextend.

cmonSTART- Thanks! I think the rust is pretty well contained to the usual spots. Once the engine is up and running I will start to take windows out to fix those leaks at the source.

[alman72]

if it is duct tape, OP did a good match by picking black, to match the other window borders.
edit- here is a possibility. do you have a window at the front of the poptop for luggage access? wonder if your canvas is just on backwards? Maybe yes, and they taped in a screen?

[cool karmann collected]

What makes you believe the case needs to be split?

The stamped code beneath the pedestal likely only means something to whoever built the engine. It appears to be a factory relacement 'universal' case, the 0430 numbers stamped on the left of the sump in front of AS41 could indicate the engine was built week 30 of 2004, those Brazilian heads haven't been made by VW for a long time so that would be about right timeframe-wise.

Be aware, there's a lot of junk engine parts for sale these days... ...Unless you suspect there is a problem with the bottom end it could be prudent to reseal what you can and run it for a while until you have a better idea of it's general health.

[danfromsyr]

it's cute what you california guys think is 'rust'

and that looks like a sportsmobile top to me.. not familiar with any sundial 3/4 poptops..
perhaps a mix of tops & interior from different companies?
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[Calocedrus]

cool karmann collected- On the way back from purchasing the bus she overheated and dumped oil. The oil pressure light never went off and I just lost power going down a hill in neutral. I tried to turn it once and she was not moving. I got a tow from there.
At home I turned the engine manually and was met with a squeaking noise from what seems like piston 1. During tear down, before removing the crank pulley, I turned the motor manually and that part of the motor was still making that noise. I assumed that oil had drained and that the sound was metal on metal. Tonight I will find out if it was the piston/cylinder or if it was down in the crank shaft.
After getting to the oilcooler, I noticed how incredibly gummed up it was and wondered how much cooling it was doing.

If I don't have to crack the case that would be great news. I guess I assumed the worse. If I don't see any damage to cylinders 1 or 2 would the next logical step be to look at the crank? It is a long squeak so I don't think it is the valves.

danfromsyr- You are correct, it is a Sportsmobile top. Did Sundial make their own tops or did they use the Sportsmobile pop-top? I have all the sundial badges.

[/quote]

[alman72]

[quote=]

danfromsyr- You are correct, it is a Sportsmobile top. Did Sundial make their own tops or did they use the Sportsmobile pop-top? I have all the sundial badges.

[/quote][/quote]

country homes camper used the penthouse top as well as sportsmobile. If the original owner had a bus with penthouse on it, i think sundial would have done a conversion for him. Most of the camper conversion places would convert what you brought in, and some of them bought from the dealer new .
looking online a lot of the Sundials have high roof tops

[Calocedrus]

Update on tear down:

The #1 cylinder is where the squeak was coming from. After removing the piston from the connecting rod, I moved the connecting rod up and down and felt resistance and heard an audible squeak.... The #1 cylinder walls did not show signs of damage any different than the other three. All pistons were built in Mexico which means I'm not really dealing with an original motor at all. This changes my perspective on the build and I'm doing research on how to build a strong, low end torque focused engine.

1) Am I right to assume that the connecting rod bearing went out?
2) Should I then assume that damage has been done to the crank shaft?
3) IF the crank shaft is damaged beyond the bearing, I will be looking at what replacement vs resurfacing costs are.

All other pistons and connecting rods move freely and are silent. I only need to remove the oil screen to be ready to crack the case.

[Calocedrus]

This was found in the case after it was split.

After removing the #1 and #4 connecting rods, it was clear that the bearings had run dry. The #4 has actually deformed while in place, I assume that is where some of the brass flakes came from in the photo above.

Taking the case, crank, lifters, and cam shaft to a local air-cooled expert. At this point I just would like to know the right path forward. I am excited to get this bus on the road again.

[Calocedrus]

News from the VW shop:

1) As you might have guessed from the picture of the smashed connecting rod bearing, the cam shaft is shot. Could potentially be re-ground, but no one around here has the tools to do that anymore.

2) It turns out that it is a dual-relief, universal case. The mechanic said that this case is definitely worth saving if it can receive a line bore. Will also be looking at a thrust cut as well. I will hear back on Tuesday whether or not the case can take the bore.

3) The cam lobes had uneven wear on them. Meaning, 60% would be polished showing contact with the lifters, while the other 40% showed black. We weren't sure exactly how this happened and the machinist will also be looking at that.

[aeromech]

Nice bus that deserves a good engine.
_________________
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Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Calocedrus]

It has been a long strange trip since my last post in this thread...

The engine is running. I am currently waiting on an accelerator pedal kit to really get the engine broken in. Below I am going to share some photos and identify the main issues I had assembling the motor.

1. I had to purchase the following
-new pistons/cylinders AA (85.5mm)
-new case (Mg)
-new counterweighted CB crankshaft (69mm)
-new cam Engle W-100 with lifters
-doghouse oil cooler+adapter+new shroud+fan
-all new silverline crank and cam bearings
-new flywheel
-new clutch
-12v Coil

2. I reused the following
-rebuilt the h30/31 carb
-rebuilt the 205t distributor
-generator
-oil pump
-heads

Whatever was on the motor and was OG I cleaned, made sure it was working, and placed it back on the motor.

One of my first steps was to take my heads to a local machine shop. They checked the valve guides and cleaned them up. They did not offer any other services though.

Here is the crank and cam laying in the new case. Now, I had an issue with the double thrust cam bearings. I think I read a little bit about this issue in a very extensive post on bearing crush. The cam was not rotating clean as the double thrust bearing was binding on the cam itself. I ended up taking some 200 grit sand paper followed by oiled 2000 grit and just got it down enough until the cam set in the bearing without contact.

I got new pistons and cylinders from the local shop. They were all wrapped in plastic and seemed oiled up. This was during a time that I was really wanting to get the motor together and figured that I would install them as is. I quickly learned that it wasn't the way to go so I tore them down, washed each part with soapy water, rinsed and dried. Then, with the aid of an excel spreadsheet, made combinations of rings, pins, and cylinders that got them all as close together in weight as possible. I ended up shaving only a small amount from one piston skirt and all were within .4 g of eachother. I was happy with how close they were out of the box which was <1.0 gram.

The rods were also balanced and worked by a local shop.

I bought new points, cap, wool, and washers for the distributor. Taking the small pin of the dog was a pain. The fiber washers were brittle and falling apart. I am glad I took the time to pull the 205t apart.

I also cleaned and rebuild the carb. This was a kit from Jbugs that worked just fine. Nasty stuff in there, was happy to get it out and get new gaskets in there.

Mating the case halves:
Scariest time of my life and maybe for no good reason. Here is how I initially coated the right half with Permatex Aviation Gasket...

As I live in Humboldt and it was dead of winter, I ended up brining the case in once it was mated so it could have a chance at drying. As I sat and looked at how much sealer was squished out of the case, I wondered how much had gone in. I then thought of how small the oil galleries were within the casehalves and ended up splitting the case to see if they had been gummed up. They had, and I was thankful I took the time to go back and check the work. I cleaned up the old sealer and put on a much thinner layer and put the cases back together.

Assembling the short block was easy enough. Being in Humboldt I was petrified of having the case open as rust formed on the crankshaft within one night. Making sure to align the piston rings was another step that took some assembling and reassembling as I asked myself whether I remembered to do cylinder #3 as I was placing the cylinder over #4. Putting the motor together was a practice in patience as I usually would just keep going even if I think I made an error. But, I did not want to wonder what impacts an error would make down the road so I didn't let anything slide on this build. No ring openings down, top rings almost opposite of each other and the oil rings offset as well.
We will revisit this again but I am POSITIVE I checked that dam distributor drive gear and made sure it was placed correctly. Stay tuned to figure out if I did or did not....

I had the heads cleaned and valve guides checked. To be honest I did not do any other work on the heads. If I could go back I would have done all the proper checks but I knew that my next purchase was going to be heads so I figured I would just use these as they are, for better or for worse.

For compression ratio I was told that if you set a dime on the piston at TDC and the dime does not protrude past the top of your cylinder then the compression will be ok. I liked how easy this was and so I went with it.

I went ahead and upgraded the oil cooler to the doghouse system. I found a shroud for cheap and also bought the front tin with the air outlet cutout. I then bought foam to fill in the front section. I wire-wheeled and painted the new shroud with BBQ black (as well as all other tin).

Checking endplay was a learning experience. I would suggest that anybody entering their first build just buy a combination of all the different sizes. I messed around with the endplay by putting some on, mounting the flywheel, torqueing it down, and finding that I had WAY too much endplay (.010). I ended up having to use a .38mm+.36mm+.32mm to get my endplay to about .0035 in. To get to these shim sizes I mounted the flywheel without any shims, checked the endplay, and did the math to find out what size shims I would need to have three of them taking up all of that play. I used a mechanical dial gauge but have since purchased the small tool that you can use the feeler gauges with.

After installing any new piece I made sure to check that the crank was still spinning free. I also rechecked endplay once the longblock was complete and was still right on .0035in.

It was finally time to put the motor back in "Shirley". With the help of my neighbor, we carried the complete motor all the way from the backyard. Not difficult, not comfortable either.

I had all of the exhaust mounted to the engine (which is a bit of a pain) and was delighted to see that you could not have it mounted before attaching the engine to the moustache bar. So I had to remove the exhaust and then mount the motor. The re-install of the exhaust was much easier than the first time for some reason.

After replacing the fuel line, running the accelerator cable back through the shroud, attaching all wires, and installing the heaterboxes back up it was time to turn the engine to build oil pressure.

I detached the center plug from the distributor and grounded it to the bus frame. I then made sure that the oil pressure sender was in place and properly hooked up. I went down to Napa and got some non-detergent 30w and zinc additive to fill the oil. I went to turn the key to start turning the motor and there was no oil pressure light... This made me extremely worried because I was so scared to trust the old oil pump.

I ended up searching for a mechanical pressure gauge and located a compression tester that had the 6x1.0 mm thread. I then turned the motor to see if pressure would build. The gauge was not working. I took it off, replaced the pressure sender and turned the motor some more. At this point, fumes were beginning to come out of the exhaust and they smelled like gas. This was a relief as I was worried that the motor was already overheating just from friction and oil was burning, not the case.

I remembered how well I had lubed everything up with assembly lube. I thought to myself, I feel like turning this thing over and letting it run will get oil through the motor just fine. I hooked up the coil to the distributor...

The engine turned and no sign of life until....pop..pop...BOOM. It was like a .22 went off in my face with a huge flame. I immediately thought, "ok so there is fuel in there and it is obviously not firing at the right time".

My gaze shifts to the distributor. How could it be? I KNOW I wasn't one of those people that installs the distributor drive shaft in 180 degrees opposite. I move the crank to what I thought was TCD for #1 based on the position of the rotor. I removed the valve cover to check the valves on #1 and they were still tight...so either I have zero valve lash or I really messed up that distributor rotor. I spin the motor again to TDC and check the valves, sure enough they are loose and my distributor was facing the absolute wrong direction. I removed the wires and placed them in the order they should now fire on. I turned the key and the motor started.

I then ran it for 20 minutes and it sounded amazing. 2.5 months of work, not down the drain. After letting the motor cool I popped the valve cover and was relieved to see that oil was making it out there.

My next steps are to adjust the carb so that it idles well, then install the accelerator pedal rebuild kit. I will then take her for her first drive to seat the rings.

Thank you to all that have shared their knowledge on this site. I wanted to share a success story of a newbies first engine build ever and hopefully motivate anyone doing it their first time.

I'll post pictures of the accelerator pedal setup and then some more of me on the road.

Cheers.
_________________
-1969 Type 2 Sundial SP 1600

[Calocedrus]

I have completed my first oil change and this is what I found (see photos). I was expecting to see a bit of Mg from the case (even though I cleaned it multiple times) but was a little shocked by this sight.

Is this a normal amount of silver to have in ones oil after a rebuild? None of it was getting picked up by a magnet.

The low oil pressure light has been flickering at idle. I have done a few things to try and remedy but have only made it somewhat better, it flicks on every 4 seconds or so and then goes off.
I am worried that I somehow messed up and this amount of silver are related.

I have been using non-detergent 30w oil with Lucas Zinc additive.

I have replaced the oil with the same combination as I have not the bus yet due to the low oil pressure light issue. Also, I have been going through the breaks because I tried to leave the driveway once and had zero stopping power.
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-1969 Type 2 Sundial SP 1600

[Calocedrus]

Furthermore, I have replaced the carburetor with a brand new 30/31. The low oil pressure light goes away as soon as I pull the throttle. I purchased the new carb in hopes that I was idling incorrectly and that may have been influencing the engines ability to build pressure.

I was just outside running the motor to warm it up for a compression test and was messing with the air mixture screw (big one above volume mix) and I screwed it all the way in. The engine did not die and held idle between 1000 and 900 RPM. I have seen a thread on what this means and I am trying to search it down. I did not end up completing the compression test because I was perplexed by the carburetor issue.

Please let me know if anyone has any hints on what may be going on here.

Thanks

-Zack
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-1969 Type 2 Sundial SP 1600

[Calocedrus]

The bus is running beautifully.

My low oil pressure was caused by an undersized oil pump. The inlet and outlet holes were tiny compared to the new 30mm pump that we installed. Pressure is now holding and the light turns off as soon as I turn the motor over.

The generator light was previously on, but after inspection by Bill down in Eureka, he said that the brushes are fine and that the generator is working. After I replaced the voltage regulator I had no more issues and the generator goes out after a few seconds of idle.

Next I will be installing a new master brake cylinder which will be the last step in my brake overhaul.

The idea of backing this bus up to the ocean and watching the sunset with my partner and dog really kept me going. Here is a picture of my first sunset over the ocean. A picture of just the dog as I think my girlfriend would kill me if I put her photo up here.

I guess I will keep updating as I move into replacing tierods, shocks, and then steering components. The bus drives great, I got it up to 70mph for a split second the other day. I am just trying to drive it around and break in the fresh motor. Very small amount of oil is leaking, mostly from the sump plate so I am extremely happy with my build.

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-1969 Type 2 Sundial SP 1600

[DocNexil]

Beautiful bus! Congrats on the rebuild, it looks daunting! I'm in the process of breaking in my rebuilt engine as well, though it was not built by me. I look forward to seeing more of your bus.
_________________
1971 Dormobile "Juliett"
1970 beetle "Rudie"

[Calocedrus]

To remedy my low oil pressure after a fresh rebuild, a mechanic suggested putting in high pressure oil relief and pressure springs in combination with a larger 30mm oil pump.

After reading a lot about how low of oil pressure is actually required for these motors (and feeling confident in my build) I decided to replace the 30mm pump with the original oil pressure springs.

I successfully pulled the oil pump without pulling the motor. The only issue was that you have to drain some oil to get the level below that of the bottom of the oil pump cutout in the case.

I had been finding metal shavings in my oil (see above) and was wondering where they were coming from. I may have found the potential source.

The front of the oil pump has HD26 within the inset of the pump (not on pump face). I have not been able to find any information about the pump other than that. I replaced this pump (thinking that it was 30mm) with a correct sized pump.

The strange thing is that the engine was bench tested before installed back into the bus and was ran by the mechanic. They did not indicate that they heard grinding or knocking which I would have expected to happen with an oil pump being repeatedly bashed by cam bolts. The bolts themselves did look like they had their faces cleaned due to contact.
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-1969 Type 2 Sundial SP 1600