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VW38 Survivors
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René R.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

Best thread on the entire forum. I've read it twice. Too bad so many pictures disappeared, though many of those were reposted very late in the thread.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

allsidius wrote:
Undis' summary of the cars built to the VW38 series is excellent, as always.

Here is a list of all the chassis numbers, note that among a few others, cars 41 to 43 are missing.

I take no honor in compiling the lists, if anyone knows who did, please drop me a PM and I will amend.



Thanks Allsidius. I tend to refer to that list quite often. It's an excellent source. I have a couple of other lists too for cross reference. All this info came to light because of the VW38/06 thread.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

JuanCor600 wrote:


Thanks for the info!

Only three survivors? Do you know the rumor of someone else?


Considering how many of the VW38s are not accounted for, there is always the chance of more survivors. Porsche still had several VW38 cars in his possession in 1945. Surely he also took some of them to Gmund, Austria when he moved. Because of his experiments some VW38 parts have survived to this day. An engine and gearbox were found for car 6 mostly because those parts were used for other projects and survived. Yes, there are rumors of more parts that survived but no word on complete cars, however never say never.
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Undis
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

René R. wrote:
Best thread on the entire forum. I've read it twice. Too bad so many pictures disappeared, though many of those were reposted very late in the thread.


This is what started it all! I am so happy that because the 38/06 find a great amount of interest was kindled for the early Volkswagen prototypes. Besides the excellent Chris Barber's book there was hardly any information out there and the info that was, not always was reliable. I have re-read that thread a few times and always thought to myself just how much we have collectively learned since then.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

scottyrocks wrote:
Undis wrote:
The 21 slots per side started with the VW39 when the whole body was redesigned.


I would love to see a side-by-side design study of this. To most people, most bugs look the same, and the 38s and 39s certainly do. I think the subtle nuances of the changes would be fascinating.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is just a quick and crude comparison between the number of air slots VW38 vs VW39 and later. The cars used here are VW38/33 and VW39/03.

I'm hoping one day to do a comprehensive comparison between the VW38 and later cars. The 38s were so much different from anything that came later.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

Undis wrote:
René R. wrote:
Best thread on the entire forum. I've read it twice. Too bad so many pictures disappeared, though many of those were reposted very late in the thread.


This is what started it all! I am so happy that because the 38/06 find a great amount of interest was kindled for the early Volkswagen prototypes. Besides the excellent Chris Barber's book there was hardly any information out there and the info that was, not always was reliable. I have re-read that thread a few times and always thought to myself just how much we have collectively learned since then.


When opening one of the pre-Birth of the beetle books, one is astonished by the amount of inaccuracy that was considered journalism at the time. Even downright fantasy was used when compiling a beetle book in the 70s or 80s. I suspect that the VW organisation contributed to this, they never saw the "Hitler-era" as something worthy of exact preservation.

The knowledge of the development of the beetle was increased tenfold with Barbers book. Then, with the thread on the VW38, incidentally started by Undis, it was at least doubled again. What details we learned from that thread is astonishing. For instance, normal KdF glass could not be used for the VW 38, since it was hand made, no glass openings were exactly the same. The VW 39 series was made with production pressings hand assembled together, hence the standard glass should fit better.

Now Undis has a thread on Facebook, showing an amazing array of pictures of each car in the VW 38 series (going all the way back to V1). Yesterday I learned that VW38/07 was the last car to feature the simple latch mechanism to hold the hood down, before the L-handle was introduced on no 08. Extremely informative! And remember, the Leica camera was in full swing in the 30s, so the pictures are sometime sharp as a knife.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

allsidius wrote:
Chassis no 38/14, missing in the list above, was transferred to the Kübelwagen program, according to Chris Barber. It received this curvy body as the second Kübel prototype (the first was made on a W30 chassis) and ended as a get-around vehicle at Hitler's Alpine retreat.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also 38/35 ended up as a Kübel prototype.


Thanks for the photos!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

Undis wrote:
JuanCor600 wrote:


Thanks for the info!

Only three survivors? Do you know the rumor of someone else?


Considering how many of the VW38s are not accounted for, there is always the chance of more survivors. Porsche still had several VW38 cars in his possession in 1945. Surely he also took some of them to Gmund, Austria when he moved. Because of his experiments some VW38 parts have survived to this day. An engine and gearbox were found for car 6 mostly because those parts were used for other projects and survived. Yes, there are rumors of more parts that survived but no word on complete cars, however never say never.


We are waiting for other survivor...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

Undis wrote:
scottyrocks wrote:
Undis wrote:
The 21 slots per side started with the VW39 when the whole body was redesigned.


I would love to see a side-by-side design study of this. To most people, most bugs look the same, and the 38s and 39s certainly do. I think the subtle nuances of the changes would be fascinating.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is just a quick and crude comparison between the number of air slots VW38 vs VW39 and later. The cars used here are VW38/33 and VW39/03.

I'm hoping one day to do a comprehensive comparison between the VW38 and later cars. The 38s were so much different from anything that came later.


Any actual photo of 39/03?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

JuanCor600 wrote:

Any actual photo of 39/03?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The story is here..https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630204&highlight=vw39
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
This thread is required reading.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=340552


Yes, it is amongst the best here.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
Number 3 has the original front hood or at least the upper part, at least the lower part of the front windshield area, dash and trunk floor, possibly the entire roof, the rear window and back part of the roof, engine decklid. Not sure about the fenders but the rears have the dot dash reinforcing ribs so those are later parts. The doors are production split or modified oval. The remaining parts of the body are early oval. Not sure about the pan. Engine is not original.

The car was heavily modified during the war for the use of the wood burning gas generator on the front of the car. After the war when it was put back together using an oval body as the donor.

Number 6 has the original deck lid and doors as well as the basic body shell minus the front and back windows. It was reconstructed using early parts modified as necessary or newly made parts. it has a '38 pan and a super early vw38 engine. It is by far more accurately restored than number 3.


Number 3 has a later production decklid handle and currently sports some damage.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

allsidius wrote:
JuanCor600 wrote:

Any actual photo of 39/03?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The story is here..https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630204&highlight=vw39


Thanks, I know that photo, but actually the car was in other condition.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152796807420044.1073741877.252030285043&type=3

A few pictures before the fire and its current state
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152796807420044.1073741877.252030285043&type=3

A few pictures before the fire and its current state


Thanks for the link.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

just came across this list of vw38 registrations/owners and thought I'd post it here. not sure where it originally came from or its accuracy...

These lists were created to survey the VW38 and know their owners, were created in 1940 and 1944 respectively

Body no / license plate / body type / destination / location 1940

38 / 1 IIIA - 43001 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 2 IIIA - 13114 delivery vehicle - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 3 IIIA - 43003 H Dr. Porsche KG, Fallersleben / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 4 IIIA - 43004 H Klauser Hans customer service / / Fallersleben
38 / 5 IIIA - 43005 H DAF, Mr. Marrenbach / / Berlin
38 / 6 IIIA - 43006 H Dr. Act / / DAF, Berlin
38 / 7 IIIA - 43007 H - / / customer service Hans Klausner
38 / 8 IIIA - Dr. Posch KG 43008 H, Fallersleben / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 9 IIIA - 43002 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/10 IIIA - 43010 R Dr. Piech / / Dr. Piech
38/11 IIIA - 43011 R Dr. Porsche / / Dr. Porsche KG
IIIA 38/12 - DAF H 43012, Munich / / DAF, Munich
38/13 IIIA - 43013 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
IIIB 38/14 - '39 Kubelwagen Typ 62 215162 Reichskanzlei / / Dr. Porsche KG
Dr. Porsche test car 38/15 KG / / Volkswagenwerk administration, Berlin
38/16 IIIA - 43016 R, finished 1940 Dyckhoff, director of Volkswagenwerk, Fallersleben / / Dr. Lafferentz, executive secretary of Volkswagenwerk GmbH
38/17 IIIA - 43017 R Dr. Act / / Dr. Law
38/18 IIIA - 43018 R Dr. Act / / Dr. Law
38/19 IIIA - 43015 H Volkswagenwerk administration, Berlin / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/20 IIIA - 43020 OKH / / Dr. Porsche KG, Typ 82 Kubelwagen
38/21 IIIA - 43021 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG, Kübelwagen
38/22 IIIA - 43022 R Gauleiter Wagner, Munich / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/23 IIIA - 43023 R test car / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/24 IIIA - 43024 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/25 IIIA - 43025 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/26 IIIA - 43026 H - / / customer service
Without Dr. Porsche engine 38/27 KG / / Dr. Porsche KG
Without 38/28 '39 chassis engine model instruction as to Fallersleben; body to Bosch for electrical testing / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/29 IIIA - 43009 R test car - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/30 chassis only instruction model for customer service, Fallersleben / / Dr. Porsche KG, driven righthand Typ 66
38/31 IA - 148564 convertible Reichskanzler Hitler / / Reichskanzler Hitler *
38/32 IIIA - 43019 R test car - / / Dr. Porsche KG
Kübelwagen 38/33 - Reichskanzlei Dr. Act / / Dr. Porsche KG
122 Stationary engine Typ 38/34 Reichspost / / Dr. Law
122 Stationary engine Typ 38/35 Signature Stiel, Hamburg / / Dr. Porsche KG, Kübelwagen
38/36 IIIA - 43044 R test car - / / Goebels *
38/37 IA - 148564 convertible - / / Göring *
IIA 38/38 - Rudolf Hess convertible 60705 / / Rudolf Hess *

before 12/31/1940:

38/39 IIIA - 43032
38/40 IA - Dr. Act 4848 convertible
38/41 IIIA - 0703 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ
38/42 IIIA - 43028
38/43 IIIA - 0687 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ
38/44 IIIA - 43029
38/45 IA - 223232 convertible Reichsmarschall Göring, Berlin
38/46 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ

-------------------------------------------------- ------------

no body. license plate body type

IIIA - 43 001 38 / 1 H
IIIA - 43 002 38 / 9 H
IIIA - 43003 38 / 3 H
IIIA - 43 004 38 / 4 H
IIIA - 43 005 38 / 5 H
IIIA - 43,006 38 / 6 H
IIIA - 43 007 38 / 7 H
IIIA - 43 008 38 / 8 H
IIIA - 43 009 R 38/29
IIIA - 43 010 R 38/10
IIIA - 43 011 R 38/11
IIIA - 43 012 38/12 H
IIIA - 43 013 38/13 H
IIIA - 43 015 38/19 H
IIIA - 43 016 R 38/16
IIIA - 43 017 R 38/17
IIIA - 43 018 R 38/18
IIIA - 43 019 R 38/32
IIIA - 43 020 38 / 20 Kubelwagen
IIIA - 43 021 38/21 H Kübelwagen Later
IIIA - 43 022 R 38/22
IIIA - 43 023 R 38/23
IIIA - 43 024 38/24 H
IIIA - 43 025 38/25 H
IIIA - 43 026 38/26 H; rounded corners on decklid
III A - 43027 R, rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43,028 38/42 R; rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43,029 38/44 rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43 032 R 38/39
IIIA - 43,035 38/31 rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43 044 R 38/36

January 1944

no body. / License plate / body type / location 1944

38 / 1 IIIA - 43001 H Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 7 IIIA - 43007 H Hans Klausner customer service
38 / 8 IIIA - 43008 H Dr. Porsche KG
38/10 IIIA - 43010 R Dr. Piech
38/13 IIIA - 43013 H Dr. Porsche KG
38/19 IIIA - 43015 H Dr. Porsche KG
38/21 IIIA - 43021 H Dr. Porsche KG, Kübelwagen
38/25 IIIA - 43025 H Dr. Porsche KG
Without engine 38/27 Dr. Porsche KG
Without engine 38/28 Dr. Porsche KG
38/30 chassis only driven righthand Dr. Porsche Typ 66 KG
38/31 IA - 148564 convertible Reichskanzler Hitler *
38/32 IIIA - 43019 R Dr. Porsche KG
Dr. Porsche KG Kübelwagen 38/33

2GM After the list was as follows:

no body. / License plate / body type / notes 1945

38 / 1 IIIA - 43001 H
38 / 8 IIIA - 43008 H
38/11 IIIA - 43011 R
38/13 IIIA - 43013 H Typ 230 / 5 HK-Generator
38/19 IIIA - 43015 R
38/24 IIIA - 43024 H Typ 230 / 4, HK-Generator
38/25 IIIA - 43025 H Typ 230 / 7 HK-Generator
38/29 IIIA - 43009 R electrical
IIIA 38/32 - HK-Generator R 43019
38/43 IIIA - 0687 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ
Prof. offen Kdf Porsche
Dr. Piech Kdf offen
38/47 131/47 chassis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

finster, that list was published by a Samba member in the VW38/06 resurrection thread at the time were trying to identity the Lithuanian car. From memory, the information came from archives and are basically the Porsche company inventory lists.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

thanks undis - they were on another website and that's why I wasn't sure they were authentic
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

allsidius wrote:
Undis' summary of the cars built to the VW38 series is excellent, as always.

Here is a list of all the chassis numbers, note that among a few others, cars 41 to 43 are missing.

I take no honor in compiling the lists, if anyone knows who did, please drop me a PM and I will amend.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


allsidius, I don't know if somebody contacted you in these past 4 years per PM, but the person who compiled that list is hand-written at the top- it's in the book from Dr. Ulrich von Pidoll. Seems obvious; I have that book and confirm the list is in it.

finster- You probably copied this list from another source, but Mr. Klauser's surname correctly spelled does not have an "n". I had the pleasure of meeting him in the late 1970's but did not have a strong interest in the original VWs at the time.
Quote:
Body no / license plate / body type / destination / location 1940

38 / 1 IIIA - 43001 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 2 IIIA - 13114 delivery vehicle - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 3 IIIA - 43003 H Dr. Porsche KG, Fallersleben / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 4 IIIA - 43004 H Klauser Hans customer service / / Fallersleben
38 / 5 IIIA - 43005 H DAF, Mr. Marrenbach / / Berlin
38 / 6 IIIA - 43006 H Dr. Act / / DAF, Berlin
38 / 7 IIIA - 43007 H - / / customer service Hans Klausner
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors Reply with quote

Undis wrote:
finster, that list was published by a Samba member in the VW38/06 resurrection thread at the time were trying to identity the Lithuanian car. From memory, the information came from archives and are basically the Porsche company inventory lists.


Also more information in this thread :

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20
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