Lead vs Filler - is lead worth the extra effort?

[Evil_Fiz]

The body on my Ghia is in relatively good condition. The car has a selection of dents ranging from a hit at the R/R corner to age related dents along the sides. I plan to to do as much metal reshaping as possible before applying any filler material. I have no experience with metal shaping, lead, or filler so it is all new to me. I have contemplated lead just because of the cool factor and the minimal structural qualities of it. I realize that filler is the go-to product these days and that there is no shame associated if it is used properly and sparingly AFTER the metal has been shaped.

So, is lead worth the learning curve and expense on a car that is going to be a resto-mod and very far from stock? Will the cool factor and bragging rights be worth using lead instead of filler?

Opinions, advice, and recommendations welcome; flames discouraged

-----
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[theKbStockpiler]

I my opinion any restoration job that requires filler at all should be only for marks that can not be hammered and dollied out like parts of a seam. Filler to correct the contour is for something that you're going to resell or don't care if it rots out later.

Whether it's worth it or not depends on how much you respect the car and a part of history.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[theastronaut]

I've done both. Rust can/probably will form under lead from the acid used to tin the steel so lead will stick, especially if theres an overlapped seam. I've removed old factory applied lead that had rust under it. It's best to stick with epoxy primer to seal the metal, then filler over the epoxy.
_________________
Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
-Sir Henry Royce, co-founder of Rolls-Royce

'64 Beetle Sunroof OG Bahama Blue
'63 Beetle Vert
'66 Beetle
'88 Festiva L
'89 Festiva L
'64 Chevy C10
'66 Chevy C10

[Mellow Yellow 74]

[theKbStockpiler]

The difference lies in whether it is looked at as a restoration job or not.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[typ914]

A wise man once told me, the only reason the factories used lead back then was because bondo wasn't available yet.

[Onceler]

Both can look like shit.
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia

[raygreenwood]

Some big differences:

Polyester...which is what all standard body filler is....can be porous...and even if its not...all polyester hardens and gets more brittle with age and it all absorbs moisture even if its at a slow rate.

"Lead"....does not absorb moisture. Lead can surface corrode but only if exposed to air. Keeping the base metal free of rust is all about surface stripping and prep...and how you apply the lead.

Also...in this day and age you do not use "LEAD"...you can buy lead free solder that works very well.

Also....the flux is not acidic. The flux for body solder is micro powdered tin in zinc chloride. Zinc chloride is acidic when mixed with water....but you are torching this onto a tin oxide coating. If you do this properly there will be no water and no acid.

The adhesion with lead is much higher than polyester...but not all panels can be soldered even though its fairly low temperature.

I have slowly been practicing with some lead free solder.

As KBstockpiler noted...you should be hammering or pulling dents out to almost good before filling with anything. Ray

[theKbStockpiler]

I was thinking that anyone that used lead on a auto body was also good at shaping with a hammer and dolly so cars with lead use it sparingly anyways. So if you can't get the contour very close then plastic filler is better.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[raygreenwood]

[theastronaut]

I made these a few years ago when I was doing lead work on a '40 Packard. This is real lead, not the modern substitute. Lead has a lower melting point and a wider working range so it's easier to use than lead free solder. This was the first time I ever tried leading so I'm sure others are more proficient at it.


Link



Link



Link



Link

_________________
Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
-Sir Henry Royce, co-founder of Rolls-Royce

'64 Beetle Sunroof OG Bahama Blue
'63 Beetle Vert
'66 Beetle
'88 Festiva L
'89 Festiva L
'64 Chevy C10
'66 Chevy C10

[Evil_Fiz]

I am teaching myself to do metal shaping and dent repair. I doubt I will get good enough during this project to get the panels "That smooth" but I intend to get as close as I can using a stud welder, hammers, dollies, and a shrinking disc.

[modok]

Epoxy should be a good compromise.
why not?

works for me.

[jason]

Just remember poly primer is spray filler.

[Evil_Fiz]

[modok]

Epoxy is stronger, and non-porous, and less likely to crack compared to polyester filler.

Marine epoxy such as "splash zone" may actually be stronger than lead, depending on how you look at it.
As far as I know the reason it is not used as filler..... is because it is more expensive and difficult to sand, but compared to lead?
If you guys are hardcore enough to use lead then epoxy should be a walk in the park .

[Chickensoup]

Hi yall. So i got this ultra straight hood for my 65. Problem is, the very nose has got some heavy pitting. probably from grass rubbing against it. I just watched the eastwood video on using lead, and it doesnt seem too hard.

question is, if i remove every spec of rust from the nose, keep everything super clean, neutralize the acids, and tin the surface correctly, should i have any problems on the pitted steel? the hood naturally flexes a bit, does the lead care? can it crack that way?

or is that raptor filler stuff better?

thanks
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[Braukuche]

Skim coat it with filler. Lead is still filler and can still fail. I’ve seen it cause reactions on paint that looks like blistering and I’m talking about factory lead.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now

[Dibaltic]

I think you should replace the bottom of that hood. Once you get all the rust off it looks like it will be very thin/full of holes. Viraten makes a good repair piece, i used it on my hood. Just cut out the bad no need to use the whole repair panel.

[Chickensoup]